Page 14 | Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

dunBle · 2023-01-30T19:36:36+00:00

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/01/2023 00:05

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/01/2023 23:23

MrsOverton amen to that. I want my daughter back. I want her in all her autistic glory. She will always be my daughter and I adore her. I do not want her butchered and gobbling testosterone. She is perfect and I hate the idea that she thinks she's a boy. It keeps me awake at night and it's hellish.

So very sorry
What's happened to children is heart wrenching. I hope that you've found some support from genspect, Bayswater ot some of the other organisations supporting parents going through this with their children?

FactsAreNotMean · 31/01/2023 00:06

FOJN · 30/01/2023 23:52

There was a time when she seemed like the only grown up in UK politics.

I agree. In the 2015 (?) party leaders debate she really stood out. I think the news headlines at the time were full of praise for her but you can't expect to retain that admiration when you're prepared to throw 50% of the population under the bus just to get support for your personal priorities and secure your legacy.

I'm not a fan of her politics but historically considered her to be a very good politician (I hope that makes sense!)

But everyone gets stale in this game, it's just a question of whether you're Liz the lettuce and last 5 minutes, or more like a Thatcher or Blair who lasted a lot longer. But eventually they all get stale - some slowly become less appealing, others turn from ripe to sour overnight when they massively misjudge in some way

I think Sturgeon has massively misjudged this. If she had a more obvious successor candidate she'd be out on her ear already - question is whether there is someone within the party who has the power or popularity to push her out. And will they be better or worse?

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:08

FOJN · 30/01/2023 23:52

There was a time when she seemed like the only grown up in UK politics.

I agree. In the 2015 (?) party leaders debate she really stood out. I think the news headlines at the time were full of praise for her but you can't expect to retain that admiration when you're prepared to throw 50% of the population under the bus just to get support for your personal priorities and secure your legacy.

2015 was when she was fighting to be able to breach human rights through the named person scheme.

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:10

she had a more obvious successor candidate she'd be out on her ear already

I suspect the lack of one might be intentional.

IcakethereforeIam · 31/01/2023 00:11

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:02

You mean like her views on appropriating £600k raised for an independence campaign, or wasting hundreds of millions on ferries worth only a fraction of that which are years late and unusable? Or her mismanagement of education, pulling Scotland out of all the international rating schemes to hid the fact it is going down the pan (and worse than England)? Or promoting widening access schemes at universities so no one from any of the islands or most of the rest of Scotland (including the majority of deprived students) has any chance of studying law at Edinburgh (but those from selected mainly SNP voting areas do)? Or her inability to build safe hospitals? Or a named person scheme thrown out by courts for grossly invading private family life? How about her hate crimes bill so where your children can report you for hurtful opinions over the dinner table?

Tell me which of these you admire?

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Ah-hem! You forgot the highest number of death from drugs. I know Nicola wouldn't want that overlooked.

Butchyrestingface · 31/01/2023 00:11

GCAcademic · 30/01/2023 23:57

Let’s hope that Sturgeon has killed off her political career with this in the same way (only more spectacularly) as that Lib Dem leader whose name no one can now remember.

I fancied him back in the day.

Am so ashamed. 😳😳😳

JemimaTiggywinkles · 31/01/2023 00:15

So there was no need to end by suggesting I spend the night in a cell with a rapist.

Except there was. Because that is precisely the reality facing some women. If you (or anyone one else reading) find it so incredibly difficult to even think about, that might spark the idea that it is absolutely outrageous to expect other women to live through it. It might be enough to make some people say “enough is enough, this is just plain wrong”. Closing your eyes to the torture doesn’t stop it happening. The only way to stop it happening is to face up to the reality and say “no”.

The poster didn’t say she hoped or wished you would end up in a prison cell with a rapist against your will. She said that you should volunteer to try it before saying it is okay for other women. It was a “walk a mile in my shoes before you judge” comment. Not an active wish for harm.

FOJN · 31/01/2023 00:16

Butchyrestingface · 31/01/2023 00:11

I fancied him back in the day.

Am so ashamed. 😳😳😳

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Is one of you thinking of Nick Clegg and the other of Jo Swinson? 😁

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:17

IcakethereforeIam · 31/01/2023 00:11

Ah-hem! You forgot the highest number of death from drugs. I know Nicola wouldn't want that overlooked.

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And more besides...

GCAcademic · 31/01/2023 00:18

FOJN · 31/01/2023 00:16

Is one of you thinking of Nick Clegg and the other of Jo Swinson? 😁

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Lol. Yes! Though Butchy’s reply did make me wonder if JS (and, thank you, I had genuinely forgotten her name) now identifies as a man.

FOJN · 31/01/2023 00:19

JemimaTiggywinkles · 31/01/2023 00:15

So there was no need to end by suggesting I spend the night in a cell with a rapist.

Except there was. Because that is precisely the reality facing some women. If you (or anyone one else reading) find it so incredibly difficult to even think about, that might spark the idea that it is absolutely outrageous to expect other women to live through it. It might be enough to make some people say “enough is enough, this is just plain wrong”. Closing your eyes to the torture doesn’t stop it happening. The only way to stop it happening is to face up to the reality and say “no”.

The poster didn’t say she hoped or wished you would end up in a prison cell with a rapist against your will. She said that you should volunteer to try it before saying it is okay for other women. It was a “walk a mile in my shoes before you judge” comment. Not an active wish for harm.

I suggested you lacked empathy for the reality facing female prisoners and perhaps you should volunteer to spend a night locked in a cell with a violent man to see how you would feel.

Only someone intent on misrepresenting my point would think I was wishing you harm.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 31/01/2023 00:19

FOJN · 31/01/2023 00:16

Is one of you thinking of Nick Clegg and the other of Jo Swinson? 😁

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Poor old Tim Farron.

No one thinks of Tim Farron.

FOJN · 31/01/2023 00:20

No one thinks of Tim Farron.

You are so right, he didn't even cross my mind.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 31/01/2023 00:22

MrsOverton I've looked but for complicated reasons I can't attend a group. I need to explore further. Thank you for supporting

Hoardasaurusterf · 31/01/2023 00:24

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:50

"Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?"

I saw this at the very top of the active threads when I clicked in to my mumsnet app, and I'd imagine all others will too.

I do totally understand that the reason you're all so passionate is a desire to protect women's rights, and that's obviously important to me too, but there's the issue of all individuals who experience prejudice and discrimination, including women but also including trans women and men.

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

Like Do you accept the chosen gender identity of violent double rapist Isla Bryson ? Or paedophile Katy Dolatowski?

Butchyrestingface · 31/01/2023 00:24

GCAcademic · 31/01/2023 00:18

Lol. Yes! Though Butchy’s reply did make me wonder if JS (and, thank you, I had genuinely forgotten her name) now identifies as a man.

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Oops, my bad. I definitely have never fancied Swinners.

I blame tiredness. I'm only staying up for this embargoed Guardian/Telegraph front page headline due to be released at 01:30 but I don't think I'm gonna make it.

FactsAreNotMean · 31/01/2023 00:30

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:10

she had a more obvious successor candidate she'd be out on her ear already

I suspect the lack of one might be intentional.

Undoubtedly - but there are bound to be some taking soundings right now.

Ash Reagan seems to have lost her fucks so might try. Kate Forbes is keeping her head down and I don't think will weald the knife, but she might well pop up immediately afterwards with a perfect alibi of maternity leave - which works as she is distanced from the whole thing politically, even if widely suspected as a closet terf she hasn't been openly "disloyal" like Ash.

Or there might be a rainbow warrior waiting in the wings.

GriddleScone · 31/01/2023 00:45

The scale of NS's political error was revealed by her complaint that there was too much 'heat' surrounding this issue at the moment. This is the same issue that she has been fanning the flames on, in order to drive a wedge between Scotland and Westminster. Her assumption that scots would be behind her policy was ridiculous; does she not read opinion polls?

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:50

Do you think she realises yet that this might not be the issue to galvanise support against westminster on? Or is she still snug in her echo chamber despite the horrid transphobic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted (in general) reporter trying to trick hers?

Kucinghitam · 31/01/2023 00:57

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:50

Do you think she realises yet that this might not be the issue to galvanise support against westminster on? Or is she still snug in her echo chamber despite the horrid transphobic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted (in general) reporter trying to trick hers?

The Righteous seem very keen on stifling discussion, hounding out dissenters, raising cognitive distance to a high art, and if any of that fails, sticking their heads up their arses in the sand. So it is theoretically possible that NS genuinely believed the entire thing, due to deliberately never encountering any resistance.

GriddleScone · 31/01/2023 01:00

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 00:50

Do you think she realises yet that this might not be the issue to galvanise support against westminster on? Or is she still snug in her echo chamber despite the horrid transphobic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted (in general) reporter trying to trick hers?

Well the reporter has no way of proving that he's not transphobic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic and bigoted so I suppose, in general, he must be.

ashitghost · 31/01/2023 01:06

She betrayed her own sex in the most despicable fashion. And had the brass neck to call it feminism. She has wreaked untold damage upon women and children, which could take generations to unpick. All so that men could have our spaces, our refuges, our sports, our language and our children.

Resign.

Feministwoman · 31/01/2023 01:19

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 20:59

It would be interesting to know which interview was done first because she seemed more rattled in the ITV one. And becoming rattled by the time of the "what evidence is there of all these 'phobes and 'ists of which you speak" in the Channel 4 one.

And did the BBC also get a slot?! Sky? Anyone else??

And and and...do we assume no one else will go out to bat, since the media is actually holding the top gal to account, and that the plan from this morning to use Keith Brown was swiftly abandoned?

ITV one came first, I think

LexMitior · 31/01/2023 01:45

She's a nationalist. Extremity comes naturally to them in my experience. You have to be odd to assume your nation is better than anyone else's to start with. Conflict is always attributed to not being loyal enough to said cause.

Justasec321 · 31/01/2023 01:46

StephanieSuperpowers · 30/01/2023 19:51

So they can report on it now, eh? Now that countless women have sacrificed themselves while they turned the other way.

Cowards.

I think this every time.

They stayed quiet and women literally lost their jobs.

Now they speak up and are amazing.

Unfortunately we need 'em.

@StephanieSuperpowers you are nice and refined calling them cowards..

I am not and will call them wankers!