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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

880 replies

dunBle · 30/01/2023 19:36

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

OP posts:
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HopRockers · 31/01/2023 02:51

Ha! Glee yes lots & lots of glee. I have been writing emails, letters (recorded, posted & hand delivered) & speaking with my SNP "representatives" for about 8 years now (dating based on how small I remember my kids being 🤷‍♀️). I have been ignored, dismissed & lied to.

I am no one, many many women have done the same as me & many very special ones have made their fight public. And many suffered greatly.

Finally finally the admission that maybe but no yes maybe that wasn't the question transwomen aren't actually women. Does Sturgeon now consider her own concerns about self ID of rapists "not valid"? Does she really think calling 80% (??) of her potential voters possible bigots was a great political move?

Did she realise that she could make Douglas Ross look really really competent & compassionate?!!

Anyway I don't think this has been posted - same short video but a wee text addition to clarify Sturgeon's position. 🤪🤣

mobile.twitter.com/The_StateMedia/status/1620060516717838336

ItsCurtainstothat · 31/01/2023 05:37

None of this affects her on a personal level. She doesn’t have daughters and won’t be sharing single sex spaces with men I presume. She doesn’t care about the rights of women generally at all. I’m glad she’s finally being held to account.

OMG12 · 31/01/2023 06:46

FrancescaContini · 30/01/2023 21:56

Ah it’s fabulous!

That use of “probably“ followed by the contradictory “it’s a fact” as well as the nervous laugh (gives her a brief moment to try and think what the hell to say next): she’s drowning in her own BULLSHIT.

Ciaran: thank you so much!

Yes Ciaran Jenkins you absolute star. This is 100% the sort of journalism we need.

ResisterRex · 31/01/2023 07:00

I'd wonder if the ploppers and monitors think Sturgeon should stop and think about how she acts towards women? She seems to have such a negative and dismissive view of incarcerated women

<head tilt>

Nicola Sturgeon: No apology over transgender prisoner row www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64431383

MarshaBradyo · 31/01/2023 07:03

Glee here. It’s brilliant

Love that after all this time a politician is being thrown into spotlight on this issue

I’d love her to resign but doubt it, she has an easy ride blaming others as main political schtick

Well done to everyone who has been doing a lot on this for ages

pattihews · 31/01/2023 07:52

@PineCone74 Nothing at all extremist in holding those views. I am meaning more in the way that they are sometimes expressed. I mean more in the name-calling, glee at the prospect of people who we don’t agree with being taken down and so on.

Come on, just say it. You want women to be nice about this. Don't be beastly to the Germans, eh?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 31/01/2023 07:53

GrantShappsAteMyBrain · 30/01/2023 23:47

I don't find this exhilarating. I like her. I don't agree with her stance on this but I like her opinions on many other things. There was a time when she seemed like the only grown up in UK politics.

And that was illusory. I'm an expat Scot with family back in the motherland and we are directly affected by her party's abysmally incompetent handling of what should have been a straightforward, bread and butter issue for any government, namely, commissioning new ferries to be built for CalMac to run between the Scottish islands and the mainland. An essential lifeline for the islands involved. Could they get this done to a good standard, within budget, on time? No, they could not. They handed the contract to a major party donor with no track record in this area and whose bid was the most expensive Hmm and when his shipyard went bust they nationalised it. I see someone (not me) has set up a Wikipedia page to document the whole debacle. Here's an extract.

The delays got worse as the project progressed. By November 2017, when First Minister Nicola Sturgeon launched Glen Sannox,[16] the ship (which was supposed to be in service by mid-2018) was 431 days behind schedule.[12] At launch windows had been painted on, the funnel was not operational and the bulbous bow, though present, was made from flat sheet steel and had been rejected by an inspector from Lloyd's Register as requiring to be renewed in its entirety.[10] The BBC claimed that these items had been fitted so that the builder could claim one of 15 "milestone payments" (to culminate in the final payment of £97 million on delivery of the ferries) from the Scottish Government.[10] As of December 2022 the ferry is not yet in service.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry_fiasco

It might come into service this year. I'm not holding my breath.

I gather the SNP has made a right stramash of the education system too. Is there anything they're actually good at?

DobbyTheHouseElk · 31/01/2023 08:02

I’m not convinced that NS is a bio female.

Did anyone hear the BBC radio 2 news about 3ish yesterday? Don’t know who the female reporter was, possibly Tina Dehealey. The way she reported was fantastic.

The way she emphasised the words about how the rapist had transitioned after raping women was so clever. She’s deffo one of us.

MountedbyHarryWindsor · 31/01/2023 08:05

I'm waiting for Nippy to pull a Jacinda "burnt out" as her get out clause.

WickedSerious · 31/01/2023 08:11

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 22:03

Essential reading for those of us bereft of fucks:

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

chef's kiss

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 08:30

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:55

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that "being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this"....

And now we've thankfully moved on from this.

A) Same sex attraction is NOT REMOTELY like "changing sex". NOBODY CHANGES SEX - EVER.

B) Being "trans" has got nothing to do with who you are or are not sexually attracted to - a remarkable number of these trans-identified men are "lesbians". "Lesbians" who get angry and violent because lesbians (the female kind - you know WOMEN who like WOMEN) are neither attracted to, nor impressed by their "lady dicks".

C) No-one is stopping these blokes dressing like something out of a low-budget porn flick and giving themselves a girlie name. As far as we are concerned they can knock themselves out - BUT THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.

D) They might want to be women, think they look like women, want to be in women's sex-segregated spaces so that they can tell themselves they are women, but they aren't and never will be.

E) No-one is suggesting conversion therapy for them or anyone else. All that is being suggested is that when children or teens express these emotions they are not rushed into transition, into hormones, into surgery - into anything that will have a permanent impact on their health and their lives. Waiting is not "conversion therapy"

F) Do you not think that hating your healthy body so much, wanting to change it so radically, and claiming that people can change sex "shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness". Because I do. Puberty is bliddy awful for nearly everyone - but it is part of a natural process and needs to run its course.

Watchful waiting gives precious time to mature - physically, mentally and emotionally. It is known that most children who think they may be trans grow up to realise they are gay, or are autistic, or are both, and don't need any brutal, life-damaging surgery.

People who genuinely suffer from body dysphoria/dysmorphia will be properly supported and helped. The perverts jumping on the bandwagon will jump off again when they realise they can't con people any longer.

Hedjwitch · 31/01/2023 08:35

I despise Sturgeon and hope we can keep the pressure up,but equally guilty are the vile Greens who are now avoiding FM Qs this week by not turning up to the parliament at all!

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 08:46

moksorineouimoksori · 30/01/2023 21:40

Scotland has sold out their women and I fear soon we will too.

Women cannot be imprisoned with men (penis-havers). It is cruel and unusual punishment.

It is effectively making the threat of rape, and indeed actual rape, into part of a woman's sentence.

It's shameful and more prison governors should be speaking openly against it.

Rape should not be a punishment for shoplifting, or not having a tv licence, or indeed ANY crime.

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 08:53

C) No-one is stopping these blokes dressing like something out of a low-budget porn flick and giving themselves a girlie name. As far as we are concerned they can knock themselves out - BUT THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.

I used to think like this but not any more. They are using us as a sexual fantasy, dressing as women because they think it is demeaning and shocking.

nilsmousehammer · 31/01/2023 08:53

pattihews · 31/01/2023 07:52

@PineCone74 Nothing at all extremist in holding those views. I am meaning more in the way that they are sometimes expressed. I mean more in the name-calling, glee at the prospect of people who we don’t agree with being taken down and so on.

Come on, just say it. You want women to be nice about this. Don't be beastly to the Germans, eh?

Though they've been a little naughty to the Czechs and Poles and Dutch
I can't believe those countries
Really minded very much....

Oh nothing changes, does it?

FrancescaContini · 31/01/2023 08:56

Hedjwitch · 31/01/2023 08:35

I despise Sturgeon and hope we can keep the pressure up,but equally guilty are the vile Greens who are now avoiding FM Qs this week by not turning up to the parliament at all!

Ooh I wonder why they can’t make it? 🙄

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 09:04

FrancescaContini · 31/01/2023 08:56

Ooh I wonder why they can’t make it? 🙄

They are apparently supporting the teachers who are striking because the Scottish Government (so the Greens themselves) aren’t offering a large enough settlement. As such, rather than arguing with government colleagues about education budgets and pay rises then accepting collective responsibility for the decision, or threatening to break up the coalition unless a decent funded pay rise is put forward, they are taking the day off.

bignosebignose · 31/01/2023 09:09

I’d like to see the next interviewer continue this theme. So, FM, you claim that some GC people are misogynistic, homophobic and racist.

a) What do you aim to achieve my throwing mud like this when most aren’t?

b) Have you spent any time reading or listening to TRAs, spewing misogyny, homophobia and racism?

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 09:21

Yes, after she had stated that some people in opposition to the bill were homophobic, racist and misogynistic, I would liked her to have been asked, simply:

Are some people who support the bill racist, homophobic or misogynistic?

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 31/01/2023 09:21

I mean more in the name-calling, glee at the prospect of people who we don’t agree with being taken down and so on

After 20 long grinding years of wondering if and when the world would wake up and see what was staring it in the face, 20 years of ups and downs and minor wins and losses, lost friends simply because I dont believe you can change sex, childrens lives ruined for no good reason, many many other reasons, I will celebrate this success, in my own way. If you think I'm full of glee, well that's on you, I am still very sad for the girls who are now infertile due to drugs, sad so many will still go through this because this is not yet the end, sad for the future of these girls, sad for every woman who lost a job, sad for every woman who still is stuck on a urinary leash until this madness actually ends. Hopefully soon now.

NeedToChangeName · 31/01/2023 09:21

DisappearingGirl · 30/01/2023 20:58

LikeAnOldFriend to me it's not about accepting or not accepting.

I'm a pretty pragmatic person and I think you just have to take a common sense approach.

A male wearing feminine clothes - great, I have no problem with that, however they identify. If they prefer to use a feminine name and pronoun, that's fine with me too.

But I don't think it's a good idea to allow any males in women's spaces, particularly prisons, as that is dangerous for women and open to abuse by people like pink leggings penis rapist.

I'd happily support other practical solutions eg third spaces.

But we've been called bigots for years for saying anything like this.

@DisappearingGirl I agree with you

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/01/2023 09:37

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 08:53

C) No-one is stopping these blokes dressing like something out of a low-budget porn flick and giving themselves a girlie name. As far as we are concerned they can knock themselves out - BUT THEY ARE NOT WOMEN.

I used to think like this but not any more. They are using us as a sexual fantasy, dressing as women because they think it is demeaning and shocking.

You are right.

I knew this but it just didn't click with me (IYSWIM)

Thank you!

ResisterRex · 31/01/2023 09:42

Another great thread from Dennis:

twitter.com/jebadoo2/status/1620197633267748864?s=46&t=tE0Y9NcxvxhhoJ5oSHwm5w

CaveMum · 31/01/2023 09:43

Alba MSP Neale Hanvey seems to be suggesting that the imminent removal of NS is a done deal. We can but hope!

twitter.com/JNHanvey/status/1620207823429816320?s=20&t=RbwImoQkar36MW9nsjyD4g

JanieAllen · 31/01/2023 09:51

oh my god if that is true!!!!!!