Page 6 | Are you a closet Gender Critical?

SilentRadical · 2023-01-24T21:05:22+00:00

Only very close relatives know that I’m gender critical. That short list includes my husband and my mother and that’s about the end of it. I live in canada where it practically feels criminal to question transgender advocates. Is there anyone else here feeling the pressure to stay quiet?

Original poster

SilentRadical · 25/01/2023 13:51

I don’t trust *

OP posts:

ElonsMusky · 25/01/2023 20:48

Delphinium20 · 25/01/2023 06:13

The idiot that shot up Club Q is a perfect example. He double victimizes actual trans people by then claiming to be one go get a lighter sentence for his anti gay, anti trans violence.

This is demonstrably false. The ClubQ shooter is being tried for murder in the first degree - which is the strongest charge they could levy. You're trying to claim that the announcement of non-binary status might take away a federal hate crime, assuming "It's not hate if I'm one of them!" but in the U.S. a first degree murder charge commands a stricter sentence than a hate crime. Claiming non-binary doesn't change the tougher murder charge.

he was trying to avoid a "hate crime" charge by claiming to be nonbinary.

A "hate crime" is a modifier. You could be convicted of 1st degree murder OR 1st degree murder with hate crime added, which would have a harsher penalty. Sounds like you're not from the US so don't know what you're talking about.

ElonsMusky · 25/01/2023 20:50

ScienceDragon · 25/01/2023 12:13

You can't include articles as evidence. And I am not overly impressed with the studies either. Correlation is not causation. What factors did they control for? What data did they produce? And my lecturers at uni would have marked me down for including a lot of the items that the studies used to reference their claims (e.g. referencing articles, opinions, outdated material).

And a study from India, which has a very different culture to western nations?

This study below shows what a study should include, including acknowledging limitations. E.g. other co-morbidities, background information on the subjects, the fact that this was a retrospective study.

And even then, this study didn't directly compare outcomes between a transgender and their biological sex, factoring in age, socioeconomic status, education, etc.
Trends in suicide risk in transgender people

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I can and did include articles as evidence.

I'm glad to hear you're "not impressed" by the peer reviewed studies conducted by people who are orders of magnitude more intelligent than yourself.

If you want to know what factors they controlled for, I'd suggest actually reading the studies, which clearly , you did not.

ElonsMusky · 25/01/2023 20:53

SilentRadical · 25/01/2023 13:50

I agree. I fully trust studies really anymore. I’ve found when I start following the money a lot of studies about transpeople are dirty and politicians and big pharma have their hands in the pot. Very very few studies are non-partisan and that’s a huge problem.

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In other words, you only trust studies that reinforce your bias. There's a word for that.

Notaflippinclue · 25/01/2023 21:01

No legacy is so rich as honesty - stand up and be counted.

trainer3 · 25/01/2023 21:11

yes i am. i have a transgender friend on fb who has gone through GRC. I want to support him whilst staying GC. i don't know how to do it. dh is far more out of the closet than me and regularly talks his friends abut issues. he doesn't share his concerns at work though and neither do i. i know i'm not doing enough for the cause.

Delphinium20 · 25/01/2023 21:17

A "hate crime" is a modifier. You could be convicted of 1st degree murder OR 1st degree murder with hate crime added, which would have a harsher penalty. Sounds like you're not from the US so don't know what you're talking about.

Bias-motivated charges in this case are separate from the first degree murder charges. This suspect has been charged with 10 counts of first degree murder which, even if not sentenced consecutively, would put him away forever based on murder alone. Whether or not they can prove bias won't lower his time spent in jail because he will die before he serves all the time for just the murders and attempted murders alone. In total, he has 305 criminal counts against him, 10 of which are first degree murder charges, 86 attempted murder and 48 bias-motivated crimes (hate crimes). Claiming non-binary has no impact on those murder and attempted murder charges, both which have stricter sentencing than the anti-bias charges.

Delphinium20 · 25/01/2023 21:34

If ELO did their due diligence they'd find I'm from the U.S.

Just to give a bit more context. It is extremely difficult to prove a crime based on anti-bias laws, so separating out the charges with multiple murders such as this shooting makes it much easier to get this killer sent to jail forever as they don't have the burden of proof of bias.

Unless the shooter has the dumbest lawyer on the block, he wouldn't have recommended the non-binary thing to reduce jail time. IF the shooter wants to later claim trans to see if there's a way to get into a woman's prison, then maybe the non-binary is that stepping stone.

But aren't we supposed to respect and believe everyone no matter where they are on their gender journey?

ElonsMusky · 26/01/2023 21:20

trainer3 · 25/01/2023 21:11

yes i am. i have a transgender friend on fb who has gone through GRC. I want to support him whilst staying GC. i don't know how to do it. dh is far more out of the closet than me and regularly talks his friends abut issues. he doesn't share his concerns at work though and neither do i. i know i'm not doing enough for the cause.

this is actually a very easy solve. Just tell your trans friend that you're GC and you won't have to balance having them* as a friend and being a transphobe.

*using "them" bc I can't tell if your frind is FTM or MTF and if you're misgendering them or not

Gymrabbit · 26/01/2023 22:25

trainer3
depends what kind of trans person your friend is. When I was active on Twitter I was friendly with quite a few male and female trans people on there who were GC (or truscum as the TRAs call them) who were very clear that they had chosen to live in the guise of the opposite sex to relieve their gender dysphoria but were totally in support of sex segregated services. I supported one in particular when she was being bullied by some extreme GC people.

I’m sorry so many of you have friends, colleagues and family members who are ignorant fuckwits.

I’m out at work and with my friends and family and have rarely met anyone who wasn’t at least slightly terfy. The only time I’ve had a row about it was with my sister in law who has a son who is gay and gender non conforming. Her upset was because she was worried about how he would be treated if he was trans (ie not allowed in female facilities, seen as a perve etc)

Gymrabbit · 26/01/2023 22:27

Just to reiterate that both Stonewall and Amnesty advocate ‘acceptance without exception’ and ‘I am who I say I am ‘
so the rapist in the news, the teacher with the massive tits and Jessica Yaniv are just as trans as a person who has had full SRS and frankly it’s quite transphobic for someone on here to suggest they aren’t……

AnnieSnap · 26/01/2023 22:34

I’m not in the closet. I am totally out and seriously pissed off by the erosion of women’s rights under the cloak of protecting trans rights 🤬

TaraRhu · 26/01/2023 22:42

I'm not really closet, I'm out. But I can't be at work as I work for a Government body who is gave us training on gender inclusivity...I refuse to put 'she' on my email though.

MorvenOfMalvern · 26/01/2023 22:57

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 25/01/2023 13:04

NHS, so I'm not explicitly GC at work, but I ignore the regular encouragement to display pronouns, have a growing collection of Suffragette badges, and spend increasing amounts of time asking Perfectly Reasonable Questions about why we are saying things and whether we're complying with the law, and helpfully pointing out 'mistakes' in references to the EA or use of gender when it should be sex. I've had several people quietly thank me for raising issues.

This so me too.

I regularly "have a query" and "just want to check" things. And I picked holes in the (utterly ridiculous) trans tool kit stats that made zero sense. If you added the percentages together relating to suicide and prevalence, according to them half the UK has tried to kill themselves (exaggeration on my part too!) But it was so clearly "a mistake or type" that I feel very able to email EDI and point out it just couldn't be true and ask for sources/correction.

ElonsMusky · 27/01/2023 18:20

AnnieSnap · 26/01/2023 22:34

I’m not in the closet. I am totally out and seriously pissed off by the erosion of women’s rights under the cloak of protecting trans rights 🤬

what rights have you lost. Be specific. I think maybe you let online echo chambers radicalize you and you're tilting at windmills a bit.

MorvenOfMalvern · 27/01/2023 18:36

We've lost the right to request and expect to be granted genuine single sex services and spaces, we've lost the right to compete in sports and know that our results will only be ranked alongside those of our biological sex class (parkrun I'm looking at you).

We've lost the right to define ourselves using terms that were always unequivocal and are now non specific, and we've lost the right to speak up about issues that concern us around safeguarding our children.

We appear to have lost the right to form any group, club, association or hold a meeting and exclude biological males either socially a la the wi or politically like Standing for Women. We've lost the right to have the challenges and barriers we face in our careers and educational/academic lives be properly recognised and mitigated in the form of women's mentoring, masterclasses, acceleration pathways and all women shortlists and awards. Athena Swan/Venus stuff for example. Wev lost the right to expect positions such as Women's Officers to be held by biological women.

We've clearly lost the right to expect any time in custody or prison to be single sex...

More than all this we've lost the sense of security and peace of mind of living in a society that understands that women are a distinct biological sex class who have specific needs relating to their biology, of knowing that a request for a female member of staff or privacy when changing would be given as a matter of course, not challenged and shouted down.

AnnieSnap · 27/01/2023 18:39

ElonsMusky · 27/01/2023 18:20

what rights have you lost. Be specific. I think maybe you let online echo chambers radicalize you and you're tilting at windmills a bit.

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Either you are a man, or a woman who doesn’t care about women’s only spaces. The most serious issue I have come across is three entire males, identifying as women are housed in women’s Scottish prisons. Two are convicted of raping adult women, one if the rape of a 10-year-old girl. Interestingly, all three decided they were women while awaiting trial 🙄

Beyond this I am not going to engage with you in a debate about this bollocks (pun intended) with you. It’s annoying and tedious.

HereComesMaleficent · 27/01/2023 18:51

ElonsMusky · 27/01/2023 18:20

what rights have you lost. Be specific. I think maybe you let online echo chambers radicalize you and you're tilting at windmills a bit.

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The right to protected female single SEX places.

Not protected single female gender spaces...No such thing exists. Make one if you want I'll opt for sex over gender.

The right to fair sport and fair representation in sport.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/01/2023 18:58

We've clearly lost the right to expect any time in custody or prison to be single sex...

And hospitals, which is likely to affect more of us.

PSNonsense · 27/01/2023 18:58

what rights have you lost. Be specific.

The right to sex based spaces.

Not sure how more specific women can be.

FurCoatNoNickers · 27/01/2023 19:02

HereComesMaleficent · 24/01/2023 21:53

I'm in the closet, I'd probably get fired if people knew how GC I actually am.

I'm in my 30's and work in the area of women's services.

But as I generate the "risk assessment" it's up to me really who gets in based on risk/assesment

I am the secret gate keeper and there's fuck all people can do about it 🤣👍🏻

I like your style

Geiger · 27/01/2023 19:18

In the closet apart from with immediate family (who agree but are sick of me banging on about it). The cognitive dissonance is taking more and more bandwidth. Cannot say anything at work because am new and the place is very woke. But how, how do I come out to friends? One is totally drunk on the Kool aid I fear. I'm not on social media.

Geiger · 27/01/2023 19:23

Violetparis · 25/01/2023 08:10

Never been in the closet on this issue with friends and family. Most are left leaning and agree so it's been easy for me. At work, in the public sector, I ignore requests to add pronouns to emails and would refuse to say them in meetings. Have a few close colleagues who I am out with and they think it's all nonsense too including my manager. It must be very difficult working for a very pro TWAW team, I would look for those that don't add pronouns and take that as a sign they are GC.

It's actually left leaning people who are more likely to believe gender ideology, I'd say.

nepeta · 27/01/2023 19:37

MorvenOfMalvern · 27/01/2023 18:36

We've lost the right to request and expect to be granted genuine single sex services and spaces, we've lost the right to compete in sports and know that our results will only be ranked alongside those of our biological sex class (parkrun I'm looking at you).

We've lost the right to define ourselves using terms that were always unequivocal and are now non specific, and we've lost the right to speak up about issues that concern us around safeguarding our children.

We appear to have lost the right to form any group, club, association or hold a meeting and exclude biological males either socially a la the wi or politically like Standing for Women. We've lost the right to have the challenges and barriers we face in our careers and educational/academic lives be properly recognised and mitigated in the form of women's mentoring, masterclasses, acceleration pathways and all women shortlists and awards. Athena Swan/Venus stuff for example. Wev lost the right to expect positions such as Women's Officers to be held by biological women.

We've clearly lost the right to expect any time in custody or prison to be single sex...

More than all this we've lost the sense of security and peace of mind of living in a society that understands that women are a distinct biological sex class who have specific needs relating to their biology, of knowing that a request for a female member of staff or privacy when changing would be given as a matter of course, not challenged and shouted down.

Yes.

Although losing our language is not the same kind of loss as the losses of places on the podium, scholarships intended to remedy past sex-based discrimination, women's single-sex refuges and so on, it is ultimately also an extremely serious loss:

How do we fight for the rights which we need on the basis of our sex if there is no language to even define it or accurately describe the problems we face because of sex-based discrimination and so on?

nepeta · 27/01/2023 19:47

On data about suicidal ideation:

Getting data on suicidal intentions has the same problems as collecting data on anything people self-report, i.e., there is no external verification.

This is not a problem if all the groups within a survey have the same numbers of people who under-report or over-report as then these would cancel out on the aggregate levels. But if some groups define the terms differently from other groups we have trouble on our hands.

More importantly, a young person's likelihood of considering suicide is known to vary by several different reasons, such as mental health problems, traumatic childhood circumstances and so on. To the extent surveys are not taking this into account they may be attributing suicidal ideation to one single cause when it might actually have a different cause or more causes than one.

A third more general problem is that when surveys are based on the subjects self-selecting into taking them, we can't really know how generalisable they might be. This is often the problem with online surveys as they are more likely to be taken by those who are especially interested in the topic of the survey and/or who have more extreme experiences with it. This is made worse if the surveys are advertised only on sites where activists, say, congregate, or only on sites which caters for one side of the prevailing issues on something.