Are you a closet Gender Critical?

[SilentRadical]

Only very close relatives know that I’m gender critical. That short list includes my husband and my mother and that’s about the end of it. I live in canada where it practically feels criminal to question transgender advocates.

Is there anyone else here feeling the pressure to stay quiet?

I'm open about my beliefs. I'm not always open about being Tinsel or about my personal experience, because it doesn't only involve me.

Im fairly vocal GC in most situations with friends and family but not at work.

Yes, my husband is aware and disappointed, so the conversations we have about it tend to end with us disagreeing.

He was quite upset the other week when he was making the TWAW point and I asked him whether he thought a male bodied sex criminal should be in a womens prison. He said No, I pointed out that that meant he didn't in fact believe that TWAW then, he said I was being too black and white 😫

Any kind of GC discussion at work wouldn't go down well, they've recently sent out the pronoun signature blocks for emails (deleted that bit quietly and ignored it hoping no one will comment) and launched the DE&I committee.

When Maria Mclachlan was assaulted I said that women had the right to assemble without being attacked by men.

That cost me my two best friends.

When I said that TW weren’t actually women I got unfollowed and blocked by people important in my circles.

Now I am keeping quiet until the tide turns.

I hate myself for it.

My dh knows, as does one friend and my hairdresser. They’re all in agreement, but I have dc who are well and truly immersed in the belief that twaw we’ve agreed to disagree and don’t discuss it. My job is semi public and I would love to speak out, but some of my dcs would find that difficult to deal with and they struggle with their mental health so I don’t want to rock the boat. I’m confident that they’ll eventually come around as they grow up a bit more.

Yeah, due to my job, which ironically is in women's health! I can't voice my opinion in the work place. I've avoided the name badge and email signature which includes pronouns. Raised my eyebrows at the new gender neutral toilets within a women's hospital, but I was quickly shut down at that and called a bigot. I've chosen self preservation I'm afraid. Bills to pay

True

I'm openly GC.
I have a trans (M2F) autistic relative.
They aren't openly trans which helps, but I worry for the day when they want to come into the ladies loos with me etc as I will have to have a conversation with them (thru don't know I can GC as we only see each other every couple of years at family events).

I did ask a lesbian at work a few years ago if they would date a Trans woman (it followed a discussion on the radio) my colleague said yes at the time, but I know now she says Lesbian spaces have been taken over and that they are expected to have 'straight sex' with trans woman claiming to be Lesbians, online dating etc is impossible now - so she's fully GC now.

Liking this tread. Like pp's Dh says he is totally "absolutely out of fucks to give." I dont care what anyone feels, presents as, whatever. You can be a fucking banana for all I care. I'm just fed up of having to talk about it. So so tired of the whole issue / debate. Wish it would all fuck off.

-Mumtobabyhavoc
Posts like these are not meant to discuss- they're invitations to spew hate.

OP, live and let live.

-SilentRadical
If that has ever been a trend in the past then I sincerely apologize. But I assure you that I am 100% sincere and I am not here to hurt others. Please try not to jump to conclusions.

-Mumtobabyhavoc
just read the replies...

-SilentRadical
I did. Can you give me an example of what you mean by spewing hate? Because I’m not on the same page with you…

-Mumtobabyhavoc
I get that.

This entire interaction is a perfect summary of the very common lack of explanation and zero logical debate on social media. If you didn’t automatically download the TRA handbook and accept it in its entirety then.

So much spewing of hatred! It’s everywhere?
Hatred? Where?! Can you be more specific and explain? Vague answer, silence or if you’re on another platform straight up deletion of comments or ban hammer all the way! No explanation! 😒

The hatred is only obvious to TRAs. Everyone else is bewildered. Just like with JK rowlings letter. So hateful! Except when you actually read it. No hatred to be found. Mysterious…

I haven't really seen any erosion of my rights. I have a trans woman in my office and she's entirely normal and unremarkable other than for being trans.

Most trans people in real life are not like Jessica Yaniv. JY is an absolute lunatic. I don't thing she's any representation of trans people in general. The media wants us to think she is though.

The big breasted Canadian teacher isn't even trans. He's a hard right guy trying to troll the school board into changing its gender inclusive policies.

Similarly, the rapists who "suddenly" claim to be trans are not trans. They're exploiting trans protections. It's gross and wrong. They're a massive threat to trans people's hard gained rights. The idiot that shot up Club Q is a perfect example. He double victimizes actual trans people by then claiming to be one go get a lighter sentence for his anti gay, anti trans violence.

I don't know much about Jazz other than her complications were exceedingly rare. I defer to medical experts though on what to prescribe. Jazz is likely better off now than had she killed herself. Lots of trans kids never see their 18th birthday. I know I'd much rather one of my kids turn out to be trans than have them kill themselves.

There's no push to change children in schools. There is a push to teach kids to be kind and accepting of everyone who is different though and for LGBT kids to grow up knowing their existence is acknowledged and not something to be ashamed of.

As a feminist, I'm 1000% more concerned about incels and Andrew Tate and his following than I am about peeing in the same restroom as a trans woman (which I do all the time at work without incident).

I'm out. I'm a doctor by trade so it would be preposterous if I appeared to believe humans could change sex, and nothing about the lengths to which male predators will go to access victims can surprise me. This isn't incompatible with giving transgender patients good medical care.

Go on then, prove that lots of trans kids kill themselves before 18. Let's see the stats. The 41% suicide rate is from a debunked study of 27 people.

Complications from trans surgeries are not rare at all. Go on any trans Reddit sub to see that.

Why do you get to declare who is trans and who isn't? Surely you are what you identify as, so Canadian giant boob teacher is as trans as any other TW.
About those incels, how are you going to stop them following you into the loo if they say they're a woman?
Don't you get it yet? ANY man (not just the nice ones) can now say he's a woman and access any women's spaces and there's nothing we can do about it.
What about the newly convicted rapist that is in a women's prison tonight? What about those poor women he's locked up with?
Do you feel even the slightest bit guilty that this happens because of what you advocate for?

I'm out socially very much so but not at work as would lose my job. ( They would find something to get me on. This has happened. I am pretty skint and need to pay the bills so... Fucked if I'm ever doing pronouns though.
I have lost friends as has my husband who also out . One of his oldest friends came out as trans a few years ago. Wife and two very young children. We tried to stay friends with both but his ex wife disclosed horrendous abuse. She is hooked up with transwidows now and keeping the children away as they also suffered. Also - my husband disclosed to me one night that he was out for a drink with said trans friend before we stopped speaking and he asked him if he ever thought that fancying children and wanting to have sex with children ( paedophillia ) was just another sexuality? My DH said no it's fucking sick ,child abuse , abhorrent and his pal.at the time said " oh I was only joking ! Of course it is , winding you up etc "
Very happy this smug, selfish wanker is not in our lives and of course we lost other pals who think he is stunning and brave and we are evil terven . My DH lost gigs because of this ( in a band ) as no terfs etc .
Fuck em.
Oh and my DB called me a Nazi at Christmas because I disagreed about his "poor wee soul" of a neighbour who is a Drag queen Story time person ( not Uk) has been protested and banned by the local far right council. So I am the same apparently because I think Drag is inappropriate for children !

MY GOD… so all the people who claim to be trans but do things that are inconvenient to the trans narrative are not trans now…? If I had tried to argue that then I would have been called a TERF. Without a doubt. I find that statement appallingly hypocritical. So which is it? Am I am a TERF for misgendering a sexual predator or am I not?

Is self ID good or bad?

This community of people needs to make up their mind!

Regardless. Self ID is a threat against women. Do you know why? Because literally anyone can claim to be trans. There is no litmus test for who is trans and who is not!

A man goes into the women’s restroom, stares women and children down. But if he says he’s trans it’s his word against ours. Does not matter if he’s “a real trans” or not. And TRA’s have created this mess with their own two hands while shouting us women down!

The government is absolutely terrified to go against the grain and say anything. We’ve been literally warning you guys that this would happen!!! Your comment is so infuriatingly frustrating because you actually do not see that there have been people pointing out the problem with ignoring sexed based rights for YEARS. We just get our comments deleted, we get banned, called names and dog piled.

Jazz Jennings situation was entirely preventable and it is not rare. It is the rule with puberty blockers.

@ElonsMusky I get that there are ordinary trans people. I know a few in person and I’m quite fond of them actually. I am not under the delusion that most of them are just ordinary people trying to live their lives.

The issue is TRA’s. They advocate for inclusion at all costs. And if anything bad happens to women or children and there is obvious resistance to fixing the loophole TRA’s just shrug their shoulders and say “Meh. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That’s too bad but it’s not MY problem.”

You seem to think that I have a problem with trans people in general. You are mistaken. I have no issues with using the correct pronouns or honouring someone’s feelings. But I can’t deny that there is some obvious misogyny happening here. Women protesting trans women in women’s sports with no checks or balances has been a great concern but was largely ignored or minimized. In a very similar way that you are minimizing my concerns in your reply.

They aren’t REAL trans people.
It’s not THAT big of a deal.
It doesn’t happen THAT often.
There aren’t THAT many complications.
If there are complications then they aren’t THAT bad.
Mutilation is better than hypothetical suicide.

I imagine in 20 years it will look something like this…
It was the only way. We had no choice. We were afraid they would have committed suicide. I mean they will never be the same or whole again but at least they aren’t dead right? 😢

some things are worse than death…

No, not "all the people who claim to be trans but do things that are inconvenient to the trans narrative are not trans now…?"

I didn't say that. I said the couple you chose are not. The reason the media went with them is to make trans people all look insane an you gobbled it up. I only know a handful of trans people and none of them are like Jessica Yaniv. Yes, that's a small sample size.

I'm in the US. I don't really know what self ID means to you, but I'm generally not for someone just saying "I'm trans" and that's that. Every trans person I know has a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. The only one I've ever really spoken to about it, my coworker, said transition saved her from crippling depression and anxiety and now she's generally pretty happy with life. I take her at her word. Changing your ID, name, birth cert etc in the US involves a legal process. It can vary by state.

The "community" can't "make up its mind" because it's not a monolith, just as no other minority cohort is. I'd imagine there are a diverse range of opinions among trans folks, but conservative media only amplifies the crazies, or makes a huge deal out of a clearly cis dude raping a woman and lying about being trans. A man doesn't need legal access to the ladies room to rape women. He'll just rape her on the jogging trail, the stairwell, or the parking garage. It's a 100% false conclusion that giving trans women access to the ladies' room increases anyone's chance of rape.

Jazz Jennings case IS rare. She had one of the best surgeons in the world and Jazz's outcome is very very rare. Puberty blockers are prescribed to precocious cis girls all the time, but when they're prescribed to a high risk of suicide trans person suddenly they're "bad dangerous drugs". Nonsense.

"A man goes into the women’s restroom, stares women and children down. But if he says he’s trans it’s his word against ours. Does not matter if he’s “a real trans” or not. And TRA’s have created this mess with their own two hands while shouting us women down!"
^^
Did this even ever happen to you or are you just making it up? Never happened to me and I've been in plenty of bathrooms and locker rooms. Not one single time ever have I or any of my girlfriends had this problem. Seems to be a problem that only exists in echo chamber web forums.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

www.abc27.com/local-news/high-rates-of-suicide-suicidal-thoughts-in-transgender-teens/

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Trans-Suicide-Summary-Sep-2021.pdf

www.pitt.edu/pittwire/features-articles/study-transgender-teens-suicide-risk-higher-cisgender-peers

journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.4103/0253-7176.194908

www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/depression/suicide/suicide-among-transgender-and-gender-nonconforming-people/

Reddit is not a valid source of complication rates, sorry.

Yes me. My immediate family know my thoughts but I just don't really discuss with anyone else (it genuinely hasn't come up in conversation)

I have wondered if many of my wider circle of friends feel the same but haven't been brave enough to broach the subject yet.

It simply doesn't come up as a conversation that often- i have spoken about it to a few friends /relatives- largely me bringing it up and there's actually not a lot of disagreement - no-one knows what gender-non conforming means, people don't really believe in gender, no-one supports men in women's sports/prisons etc - there's a certain amount of not being bothered about other women's spaces but i think its because people think its a very small minority (eg how it used to be)- when asked specifics - should your daughter/niece have to change in a room with men- everyone says no...
I saw some discussion at work - a pride forum where the lesbians on the panel were asked if they felt threatened by Trans and they replied something banal about being kind etc .
Pronouns- not prevalent or forced

If i was asked my views or opinion I'd say - but i would respond on the specific issue rather than saying I was a Terf per se

Elonsmusky you asked if anyone has the experience of these men in our facilities. In 1975 first real job, involved changing room. I was naive and felt there was something wrong but couldn’t put my finger on it. Eventually the other workers told me. I felt intimidated and ultimately the victim of deception, and voyeurism. Later by a few years , told I must call a bearded bullying individual by a female name . Never went back to that group. Still later in many women and lesbian groups where one male became responsible for closure of the group/ social circle/ crisis centre or whatever. Now fully vocal about it, but lucky I don’t have a job to lose.

I would encourage people on either side of this debate to be more outspoken about their views, to try and engage in open and respectful discussion, and listen to each other.

A colleague of mine also thought she would lose her job if she vocalised her views, however ended up doing so and it led to a mutually respectful discussion from both sides. (And I work in a sector that is generally considered to be pretty 'woke').

There just needs to be a more respectful conversation on both sides out in the real world. Talking about it might not be as awful as you think.

Women like you are like the French Underground. You keeping silent but keeping guard is a far more valuable function. Viva la femme!

Yes, I am. To the point where my boss has asked me to organise some LGBTQ+ training at work. I really don't want to but have to... I'm hoping it will be ok to raise my feelings in the session but I'm worried about what colleagues will think of me.