Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

210 replies

taracetamol · 18/01/2023 18:54

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

OP posts:
Datun · 19/01/2023 18:03

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 18:01

"Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward"....

BE KIND YOU WENCHES

'Low impact'. 😁

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/01/2023 18:04

Datun · 19/01/2023 18:03

'Low impact'. 😁

More front than Harrods, that one!

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:09

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 18:01

Who has the highest chance of being murdered?

cis males.

obvs no one gives a fuck about that here, though.

If you were reading, you would see I listed rates of male murders AND I noted the lack of reporting on Native American men's suicides.

I agree that in a feminist forum, we really shouldn't have to center male problems, should we?

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:10

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 18:01

Who has the highest chance of being murdered?

cis males.

obvs no one gives a fuck about that here, though.

I just gave a fuck about it less than 50 minutes ago.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 18:10

Men. We discussed that ages ago. There's no such thing as "cis".

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:14

Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward and go back to your good works for cis women who are half the populations.

Just give us what we demand and we'll let you go. Reminds me of so many scenarios...

Hostage situations
Mafia shakedowns
Muggings
If you sleep with me, you'll get that promotion
Parental kidnapping
Stranger kidnapping
Bank robbing
Carjacking
Toddler tantrums

DarkDayforMN · 19/01/2023 18:16

Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward

no thank you.

Helleofabore · 19/01/2023 18:18

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 18:01

Who has the highest chance of being murdered?

cis males.

obvs no one gives a fuck about that here, though.

And we are back to murder again and you showing your motivation for being here.

You inability to engage is noticeable, your posts are like a revolving shame spinner. Spin and pick your shaming post topic.

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 18:38

@EastLondonObserver it is men killing each-other sadly, and that is an issue for another board. But men also kill women (2-3 a week here in the UK), they also rape, sexually assault, and physically assault women. So to say ANY man can say they are a woman puts us all at risk. The potential impact is not low, and I'm sure you're well aware of this.

It would REALLY REALLY help the TRA case if they could acknowledge this and come up with a way to tell the difference between Transwomen and dangerous men who dress as women to access women's spaces.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/01/2023 18:38

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:14

Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward and go back to your good works for cis women who are half the populations.

Just give us what we demand and we'll let you go. Reminds me of so many scenarios...

Hostage situations
Mafia shakedowns
Muggings
If you sleep with me, you'll get that promotion
Parental kidnapping
Stranger kidnapping
Bank robbing
Carjacking
Toddler tantrums

Indeed.

And let’s not forget, as always, that this is a group of MALE people making demands - very specifically demands - of FEMALE people.

Female people, who are already marginalised and vulnerable in all sorts of ways ourselves. Some groups of women especially so, eg disabled women, women prisoners etc.

People with male privilege claiming to be more vulnerable in order to justify their determination to curtail women’s rights.

And, once again, let’s always remember that the fundamental demand this group of male people has is that female people be allowed nothing of our own.

Not spaces, not DV services, not hospital wards, not rape crisis centres, not refuges, not prisons, not sports, not changing rooms, not shortlists, not awards, not open to the public social events - nothing.

What do we, the more marginalised, vulnerable sex want? We want the right to say no to male people, our oppressors. We want them to just leave us alone in certain situations and settings. That’s all.

What does this group of male people demand? They demand that we be denied that right. They demand the right to impose themselves on us, against our will, in EVERY single type of situation and setting.

Who is actually vulnerable here?

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 18:39

Bravo, well said @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark

SinnerBoy · 19/01/2023 18:43

EastLondonObserver · Today 17:58

I think it’s only a “massive distraction / waste of time” because you choose to put up such rabid opposition to the needs of a small group.

To the detriment of a far larger group, which you ignore.

nepeta · 19/01/2023 18:45

The homicide rates matter in this discussion because if a particular group is especially at risk for violent victimisation, we would expect the reported homicide rates for that group to reflect that pattern, as the end result of some of such violence.

But I agree with many on this thread that the meaning of being 'vulnerable' is so plastic that it doesn't really advance the discussion much, and different groups are vulnerable for different reasons, some for multiple reasons.

And 'marginalised' is sometimes an unclear concept, too, especially when a group which is harassed etc. is also well-funded, has the ear of governments and international organisations etc.

Finally, this reference is to a carefully done study in the US on transgender homicide rates from 2010 to 2014. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:49

I dare say all men would be safer in majority women's spaces. Any random male prisoner would be safer and protected if he were allowed access to a women's prison.

I also suspect that if asked, a great deal of men would like access to a women's hospital ward, to be looked after by a female nurse and to enjoy a walk through a woman's changing area (they may not readily admit that last one, but we all know many would love it).

We don't allow those men in even though they may benefit or want it, so why are transwomen extra special?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 18:51

I agree that in a feminist forum, we really shouldn't have to center male problems, should we?

Yes, surely there's a subreddit you can join, ELO? Or start a thread in Chat, AIBU, politics, whatever.

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:52

Every man knows that if he were homeless and in need of shelter, he'd be safest in a women's shelter. But we don't allow that and most men accept that because they aren't all massive pricks.

Florissant · 19/01/2023 18:52

They aren't. They are very good at complaining, though.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 18:53

This comes down to a fundamental. We are not allowed to disbelieve in gender identity ideology. We are not allowed to consider these male people men, because when you do that, all their special pleading arguments collapse.

Too bad.

SinnerBoy · 19/01/2023 18:53

Here would be a good bet:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/dadsnet

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 18:59

ELO just like to come here and finger wag at the naughty wimpens.

MichaelFabricantWig · 19/01/2023 19:13

My husband has pretty well reached the mountain top by the GRR debacle but even he still comes out with this bull. I challenge it every time. A man in a dress and a wig is not vulnerable or marginalised

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 19:37

I had a young person recently tell me they experience hate crimes every week due to being trans, in fact they told me this started when they came out which was during COVID lockdowns. I know this person well enough and see them frequently to know they are not being assaulted on a weekly basis. And most certainly not during COVID lockdowns when they were living at home alone with their parents who I am 99.9% sure have never assaulted them.

I can only surmise that these reports of hate crimes are ones of teasing, gossip, online bullying and correctly noting sex. In my country we don't have hate speech crimes in our laws, so I'm also surmising this young person is confused about free speech.

I care for this young person but they are not well and this narrative of "most vulnerable" really isn't helping them overcome their sense of victimhood. It doesn't help them get a job, stay in school nor make healthy relationships. When a white, male, upper middle class adult with a private school education claims "most vulnerable status," it's hard to take seriously.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 19/01/2023 19:57

Opposition to the needs of a small group

Wants. Not needs. Not the same thing.

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 20:29

Delphinium20 · 19/01/2023 18:09

If you were reading, you would see I listed rates of male murders AND I noted the lack of reporting on Native American men's suicides.

I agree that in a feminist forum, we really shouldn't have to center male problems, should we?

Uh? This a UK site. As much as Native Americans experience numerous oppressions and difficulties, I’m not sure why it’s relevant here

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 20:31

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 18:59

ELO just like to come here and finger wag at the naughty wimpens.

Is this comment written by AI?

Swipe left for the next trending thread