Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

[taracetamol]

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Do the per capita sum yourself or Google one of the many instances of people doing it previously for UK stats. It’s lower for TW than for actual women, never mind for other men. As has been said on here multiple times.

Because magic woo woo unicorn rainbow glitter and special feelings, obviously.

DarkDayforMN · Today 14:07

Do the per capita sum yourself or Google one of the many instances of people doing it previously for UK stats. It’s lower for TW than for actual women, never mind for other men. As has been said on here multiple times.

Yes, it's been done to death on a number of threads, but ELO and co just ignore the links and constantly ask for, erm, links.

The PP has it spot on - there is a correlation between teens and young adults identifying as trans/non-binary/other random identity having comorbidities which make them already vulnerable, and I think this explains the high numbers in some of the deprived areas.

Yes, “trans men” are a genuinely vulnerable group- even the class privileged among them are disproportionately likely to have been subjected to sexual assault and sexual abuse, and they are mostly teenage females with MH issues.

Transwomen in this country simply aren’t.

But the “vulnerable and marginalised” rhetoric is typically used to bully women into accepting males into single sex spaces - i.e. it is used to refer to TW. The horrific stats about TM’s mental health and abuse histories are used to bolster the story that TW are marginalised and vulnerable.

I'd like to know if there are any stats on the ages of trans identified people in the UK -how many transwomen are middle aged men? Anyone know if this info would be available anywhere?

They are certainly vulnerable and marginalised on Mumsnet!

People who block driveways that don’t belong to them when parking are the most marginalised population of all. 😭

Data on gender identity and age being made available on ONS on 25 January.

So far we have TW at less risk of murder than the rest of the population.

Some living in deprived areas, but some living in the least deprived areas. Possibly the numbers living in deprived areas are young people with neurodiversity and mental health problems who are being told their problems will all be solved by becoming the other sex.

So some transpeople are among the most vulnerable but this is more likely due to mental health issues, history of trauma, family situation rather than trans status, and some we know are among the most privileged because they have high ranking positions in society.

So why is this THE group that politicians want to focus most on, yet without actually critically examining the assumptions they are making. It's probably because it's so much easier than acknowledging how much worse they have made the lives of the OTHER most vulnerable people; with disabilities, living in poverty (which leads to an increase in DV, drug use, mental health problems), the elderly, children (impacted immensely by poverty for all the above reasons).

It's clearly utter nonsense. Are transpeople more vulnerable in society than babies? Of course they're not. Are they more vulnerable than elderly people with dementia? Of course they're not. Severely disabled person requiring 24 hour care? Homeless teenagers? Children in care? You don't even need to look at statistics, just apply the tiniest drop of common sense and it's obviously not true.

They’re all mere speculation though - because they are based on estimates of the number of transgender people.

No, they're now based on the numbers included in the census. You know that.

This whole thread is nonsense because no one of any stature has claimed transgender people thee "THE MOST" vulnerable. Instead Starmer and Davey said "ONE OF". And that is reasonable.

And that is reasonable

By what metric, please? How are you measuring vulnerability?

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

There's that for starters.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

And HIV and psych care:

www.aidsmap.com/news/apr-2019/first-data-trans-people-accessing-hiv-care-england

Yes - cis women (and subsets thereof) are more vulnerable too than average.

But no claims have been made by prominent people they are "THE MOST VULNERABLE", only that they are "ONE OF THE MOST VULNERABLE". So, the fact that by some metrics cis women or subsets might be more vulnerable is a moot point.

I suspect that the sample size is so small that it is not possible to show meaningful distinction.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

ONCE AGAIN, this is not true.

Thanks for the actual sources!
The crime rate thing I believe (age alone could explain it.) Though I’d like to see the stats specifically for TW, since they are usually the subject of this rhetoric.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

You forgot the link for this one.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

How is the murder rate in the UK higher than any other group?

There has been zero murders for how many years? And we hope that trend continues. So it is currently 0! Job well done In lowering that rate in the UK!!

So how is this higher exactly?

You are seriously throwing shit against the wall in hope something sticks! And nothing is sticking.

"This translates as a ]transgender] murder rate of around 0.165%. Now, that is still significantly higher than the murder rate for the UK as a whole"

unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

And this is from a T*!

Well strictly

The murder rate for transwomen is highly likely to be higher than the murder rate for the general population as the latter is mixed sex and the former isn't

Trying to calculate the murder rate for the whole transgender uk population must be tricky as until the last census no one was counting who classed themselves as transgender

I find it quite irritating when people say things they must know they can't justify . Such a waste of everyone's time

@EastLondonObserver

are you the poster who was arguing vociferously that the people dressed in dog gimp masks with ropes tied round their waist being led through the IKEA cafe at the weekend was a bit of harmless and indeed instructive fun?

So if people who are into sexual diversity performing in public are the joyously liberated and liberating, how are the transgender the oppressed and vulnerable? Make your mind up.

There isn't but if there was it still doesn't = marginalised.

Perhaps you could educate on what you class as hate?

many posters here are choosing to focus on murder, when the proposition in the OPs post was simply that it is being claimed "TG people are the most vulnerable"

not only has it not been claimed they are the "most" vulnerable, but it has not been claimed they are the most vulnerable to "murder"

vulnerability can be measured by a bunch of metrics. depending on which you choose TG people can come across as more or less vulnerable. but overall, the picture it, yes, they are among the most vulnerable.

jeeezzz - this thread is a hotbed of flawed logic and prejudice driving blindness to any clear thinking.

I agree that the focus on murder is wrong-headed (though it does have the advantage of being a clear yardstick[ and that "one of the most" is not "the most". But I still don't think that as as an umbrella category, trans individuals are more marginalised and vulnerable than any other number of social groups you could mention, from the elderly and disabled to children in care, travellers, asylum claimants, prison inmates, etc. There are dozens of vulnerable and marginalised demographics out there.

But it's the "most vulnerable " label that is the driving force to push to change legislation which will impact massively on another vulnerable group. And women who want to challenge this are accused of hate towards trans people.

This push doesn't happen for any other group. Why trans people?