Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

[taracetamol]

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

To give a fair answer to this, I think you need to start from the point that 'trans' people are not a single, homogeneous group.

A well-off male celebrity (or indeed any comfortably-off man) transitioning in late middle age - almost certainly not marginalised or vulnerable.

But there is emerging evidence that young transitioners are disproportionately likely to be or have been in care. And that is a vulnerable and marginalised group. However, I'm not aware of any evidence that looked-after children who identify as trans are more marginalised or vulnerable than the cohort of looked-after children as a while.

Whole, not while.

It’s worth considering what kind of man is motivated to solicit pity from women and why, when thinking about how this “most vulnerable” propaganda developed over time. Sorry to be vague and cryptic but I’d be deleted if I wasn’t!

Oh no! Are the big mean women pointing out reality again? The HORROR.

If we're going to use mumsnet ganging up on someone as a measure for the most marginalized and vulnerable, I vote Meghan Markle. Or that Katie whats-her-name everybody's got an opinion on.

The ONS statistics show all sorts of vulnerability in different groups as victims of homicide.

There are some very shocking facts there, like rates of black victims of homicide being 6x more per mill than white victims, or the highest rate of homicide per million being babies under 1. You could make the case for lots of groups being 'the most vulnerable' depending on your measure and priority. Black men aged 16-24 would be a front runner on a few measures for eg.

Of some relevance to Emily Thornberry's comments about always having Trans people at the forefront of our minds in any discussion around the GRR, and her complete absence of acknowledgement of womens' concerns...

177 women died in the last year of the stats (and the same the year before)
I in 10 of those women were strangled
The number of women killed by knives is on the increase
Half of female victims were as a result of "domestic homicide" - this increased to 56% of female homicides in each lockdown period..
A greater percentage of female vs male deaths has no suspect identified.
92-94% of suspects in female homicides were...............male....

They are a tiny minority, but have the biggest voice, and demand the whole rest of society changes to accommodate their wishes. I am so k of their demands to invade female spaces.

I don't think there's a competition for most vulnerable minority. Being vulnerable is being vulnerable and that's a problem, can we just accept that?

Anyway I would imagine part of the reason people say that is if you're trans a vast majority of the population is repulsed by you and treats you badly, especially if you do not pass. No other minority gets treated that way.

What about people with disabilities? Especially facial disfigurements?

There are quite a few groups that could fit this profile though. I don’t believe “No other minority gets treated that way” is true.

It also leverages a sub section of that group’s vulnerability to apply it to the many who are most definitely not vulnerable. Quite the opposite.

This really has also been a group of disparate people, in the past that has been mostly males. I would argue that many of those males, those in positions of power and influence, have utilised the vulnerability of others for their own purposes.

They are most certainly not the only minority that some people are repulsed by or are treated badly. They are however, definitely not all ‘vulnerable’ as those minorities who are genuinely vulnerable.

The curating of and stategiically utilising that ‘vulnerability’ message has added to the sense of falsity about some of the other claims and messages about this group. What does seem true is that shoving everyone under the trans label / umbrella has harmed those who are genuinely vulnerable.

I wonder about the effect this mantra of most marginalised in society has on younger trans people. For a demographic that are already said to have poor mental health it must be an added strain if they believe that they are the most marginalised and vulnerable.

This tweet by SalGrover could be said to be the journey of some, if not many posters from what I have read over the years.

Every journey goes

“I’m kind! TWAW!”
“If they’ve transitioned they can use female spaces”
“They’re saying what to lesbians?”
“What is autogynophilia?”
“You mean they’re saying they actually ARE women?”
“Wait. What laws have changed?”
“I don’t care if you call me a bigot”
“TWAM.”

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1615624765963931651?s=46&t=cwB2MhT1vSN7a6R3_cKXlg

Keir Starmer supports Nicola Sturgeon's abuser's charter:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11651245/Keir-Starmer-sides-Nicola-Sturgeon-Scottish-gender-law.html

And Emily Thornberry pretended that Lloyd Rustle-Moyle didn't abuse Rosie Duffield.

Vulnerable is an odd word. We use it a lot at work but have to define it. Vulnerable to what. My feet are vulnerable to feeling cold. A woman alone in a foreign country with no support is vulnerable to exploitation. It's about proximity and how likely something is. Not the consequences or significance of that. The more vulnerable you are to something, the more likely that something will happen. How bad the result is then needs to be determined.

So I suspect a transperson is more vulnerable to misgendering than the average person. I assume the consequences of that are feeling marginalised.

So in the context of most vulnerable to being misgendered, they are probably correct. Most vulnerable to murder? Probably not.

Other vulnerabilities would need to consider the driver for that vulnerability. Is it being in care. Being autistic. Being trans. Combination. Etc.

Quite. Then add on the premise of high suicide risk.

We are failing our children on this. I find the #nodebate, resistance to questions, lack of proper controlled studies, lack of follow up, lack of full appreciation of the consequences wholly unscientific and a significant risk for children.

Do people not actually realise some trans people are not men transitioning to women but women transitioning to men? This whole debate is generally about male perpetrators and women’s safety.

But society treats loads of people terribly! And there are demonstrable poor outcomes for many groups with certain characteristics. It's not a competition and it's not a hierarchy, and constantly repeating like parrots the assertion that one disparate group with no actual objective definition and into which you can self opt is to be prioritised and not questioned because of it is dangerous. It's both not likely to improve their outcomes, and risks the sacred caste fallouts.

How about people who are homeless and addicted to substances? Unable to access clean clothes and washing facilities, even if they vomit or are incontinent? (Many with a history of being in care, the services, severe mental health problems)

How about people with physical disabilities and medical needs who are incontinent, wheelchair users, unable to swallow their own saliva and drive, unable to communicate?

People with dermatological conditions, scarring, facial disfigurements, large birth marks, squints and lazy eyes, mobility aids...

Mental health conditions, tics, regulation problems, social anxieties, low literacy, speech and language difficulties, dementia, memory problems, acquired brain injuries....

Loads of groups have a really, really hard time. Have assumptions made about them and treated with less respect, accessibility, inclusion etc.

The world is a really hard and difficult place for many. We as a society are not particularly kind to those who are different. We all need to be part of improving things where we can.

But just awarding random hierarchical priorities and not considering the impact on others is not the way to go.

Being vulnerable is being vulnerabl

That's circular logic and is nonsense, as is the rest of that post.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/unraveling-the-mindset-of-victimhood/

No other minority gets treated that way?

No because for many other minorities the reason you are a minority sticks out and so the population treats you badly before you say anything!

Are transgender people more often arrested ? More often raped ? More often living in poverty ?

I don't think so

Do you mean here on this board? Or generally ?

Because on this board we are very conscious of the female transitioners. Many have them in our daily lives.

This is a feminism board, of course, and those female transitioners still need the rights that feminists fight for due to their biological needs and the impact of being female in this society.

And that includes their own safety from all males too.

Yes everyone realises that.

But the issues surrounding FtM trans people and MtF trans people are very different.

And while FtM have very specific vulnerabilities, when the discussion is on the impact on others, it is perhaps obvious that MtF transitioned are considered more significant in terms of the impact on others around them.

It's another reason to be very careful to not spout mantras like "trans people are X" because we know that there are discrete groups with very different needs and considerations.

Once you realise that so many of those are male, middle-aged and more than capable of looking after themselves, then it's clearly nothing more than entitlement with bells on, and utter nonsense to anyone with a brain.

I honestly read that as 'entitlement with balls on'.

Isn’t it to do with percentages? So as the trans community is much smaller than the cis (I understand this term isn’t liked but i’m using it for clarity) women group proportionally they are statistically more likely to experience marginalisation and violence.

More women die from violent attacks but less as a percentage of their entire group as it’s significantly larger than trans people.

I haven’t looked at the statistics but I’d hazard a guess that the same extrapolation would exist for other minority groups as the trans community make up such a tiny percentage of the population (0.001% I think)