Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

[taracetamol]

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

More women die from violent attacks but less as a percentage of their entire group as it’s significantly larger than trans people.

That isn’t true. Trans people have a lower rate of being murdered than women in this country. Which is interesting, because usually more violent groups or individuals have a higher likelihood of being victims of violence, for very obvious reasons. But TW are far more violent than women.

Don't more men die of violence than women

Surely the correct comparison is "are transowmwn proportionately more likely to be killed by violence then men ?"

Otherwise you can argue that any group of men - all Kevin's - are killed at a highe rate than women

It's just with male violence you are as likely to be a victim as offender whereas women tend to be victims

Otherwise you can argue that any group of men - all Kevin's - are killed at a highe rate than women

It’s not true of all groups of men. It’s not true of Korean men (violence generally is very low there, but violence against women isn’t.) It’s probably not true of white middle aged middle class men in this country. And it’s not true of TW in this country.

They're not.

It's a perpetual self victimhood narrative that they culture, and force others to believe.
There are never any statistics that go along with this claim, just "oh look, poor trans people being murdered, abused, victimised, bullied etc" but never any actual proof.

On the other hand the statistics for abuse against women (overwhelmingly by men) is very clear.

The great shame is that so many at high levels of society including the Government, Police, Law and others have either bought into this narrative or been forced and coerced into it by organisations like Stonewall, who continually misrepresent things like these "statistics" or the Equality Act, and they then make policies based on flawed logic with no real proof.

The truth is that TW remain in the same category as other men when it comes to crime statistics.
The abomination is that some of those statistics are now skewed because their crimes are documented and registered as female crimes.

All I can say is CORRECT this every time you hear someone saying it. People need to know these claims are built around insubstantial fluff.

A transwoman in a women's toilet is potentially at risk of being misgendered (correctly sexed) and being asked to leave.

The women with the transwoman in the women's toilet are potentially at risk of being assualted, raped and made pregnant.

A transman in the men's is at risk of both of the above.

Those who say trans people are the most vulnerable need to ask themselves which is worse; a man's feelings being hurt or a woman being raped?

women group proportionally they are statistically more likely to experience marginalisation and violence

Show me a woman over the age of 12 who has not been subject to some form of sexual harassment on a par with misgendering.

It's not true of MTFs as a group for any race, but I think it is probably true of white men as a whole as men are both more violent and at more risk of being killed. I don't think it's helpful to compare "white middle aged middle class men" against all women.

I've seen figures for America broken down by race, and it is true that across all races men are at more risk than women there. Would be interested to see male homicide figures by race in the U.K. if anyone has them.

I was talking uk

The majority of women murdered are killed by men either in their home or who they have a relationship with.

I was agreeing with you, midge

There is data on the uk gov ons site , not specifically about transgender as the numbers there are traditionally/ historically low

At work so can't dig it up atm . Starting at someone else code so must focus !

Surely the correct comparison is "are transowmwn proportionately more likely to be killed by violence then men ?"

Yes, i agree. It's not so much of an issue here in the U.K. where there are hardly any trans murders, but in the US, depending which population figures you use, it sometimes comes out that MTFs as a group are murdered at the same rate or sometimes (because we are dealing with small numbers) a higher rate than women. Across all races in the US they are murdered at a much lower rate than men. Black MTFs are murdered at a lower rate than black women, and a vastly lower rate than black men.

I think it is probably true of white men as a whole as men are both more violent and at more risk of being killed. I don't think it's helpful to compare "white middle aged middle class men" against all women.

I agree it’s almost certainly true of white men as a whole, but class and age make a HUGE difference to victimisation rates; that’s why I was specific. TW in this country tend to be that demographic and I assume that’s the reason their rates of murder victimisation are lower than women’s.

It’s the foundational lie of the “trans rights” movement.

Up till recently it was pretty bloody obvious to all liberal types that women (female people) are more marginalised and vulnerable than men (male people).

Obviously this made it hard for a group of male people to make demands that took away rights from female people, that actually left female people even more marginalised and vulnerable than before, and to be supported in those demands by people who identified as liberal.

Hence the need to construct a narrative saying this particular group of male people are more marginalised and vulnerable than women/female people; the most marginalised and vulnerable community in the whole of human existence, in fact.

A tidy bit of funding goes into this propaganda, and job’s a goodun.

It never had anything to do with facts or reality; purely with finding a way to make a male rights over female people movement something that they could dupe liberal minded people into supporting.

Now the “liberal” world agrees that female people are the oppressors and this group of male people the most vulnerable and marginalised ever, that we are using our vast female privilege (they’ve named it “cis privilege” to make it a bit harder to spot the lie) to deny these poor suffering male folk their basic human rights. We just don’t want to give up all that power we have. We are bad, bad bigots.

And so on, and so on.

Marginalised? Quite the opposite imo. Their ideology is unquestioningly repeated by any number of public figures and has been surprisingly quickly embedded into our public institutions. All on the back of a very vocal and sometimes aggressive social media activism. If anything, I'd argue that they are massively overrepresented.

Answer me this: if I was a straight man who transitions to become a woman, I'm still attracted to women - have I magically become a lesbian now?

True. Even if they were the most vulnerable they can literally take off their 'woman costume' and return to the most privileged group. No other group can remove the characteristics which make them vulnerable.

The trans community would say yes - furthermore, if a lesbian didn't want to have sex with the new 'female' you (cos...penis!) they'd be labelled transphobic 🤯

I agree it’s almost certainly true of white men as a whole, but class and age make a HUGE difference to victimisation rates; that’s why I was specific.

Yes but the same would probably apply to "white middle class middle aged women". We don't need to do that, MTFs are male, so males are the better comparison than women.

We can say that in this country, being a trans person of either sex is statistically much safer than being a woman or man without a trans identity.

Not sure being white middle class and middle aged is a proection against doestic violence killings the way being white middle class and middle aged means you are unlikely to be killed in a gangland knifing or pub brawl.

That's a fair point @AuxArmesCitoyens

There is certainly a lot of hate for them on this forum.

Nope, that's an utter lie.

There is certainly a lot of hate for them on this forum.

Please report any hate you see. If if doesn't get deleted, then maybe it is your perception of what is 'hate' doesn't match up with the current modding on this board which is actually quite biased towards being more supportive for trans people than the posters you disagree with.

Having an opinion that doesn't match yours does not mean it is 'hate' even if you like to frame it as such.