Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

[taracetamol]

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

And this is from a T!*

I don’t know where she got that 0.165% but it seems to be far, far too high. I think she’s comparing the murder rate per 11 years for trans people to the murder rate per year for everyone else.

It’s certainly contrary to the findings of TRA-biased sources using the same numbers. But congrats on finding someone who seems to have done her sums wrong!
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

How weird?

did you or did you not post:

“Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.”

and

“Statistics are clearly not your thing”

and

”They’re all mere speculation though - because they are based on estimates of the number of transgender people”

and

“Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop”

Seems like it is you focusing on the murder rate yourself.

I agree there are a multitude of groups that are "among the most vulnerable".

The whole discourse on all sides could do with a tighter definition of vulnerability.

I posted three metrics. One related to murder. I don't call that "focussing", especially vs the exclusive focus paid to it by many posters upthread.

This translates as a ]transgender] murder rate of around 0.165%. Now, that is still significantly higher than the murder rate for the UK as a whole

As is pointed out in the comments, the maths is wrong in this article (and the article itself shows the initial 0.165% is based on the incorrect initial total number of 11 rather than the correct 8 or 9).

I have no idea how the writer got to 0.165%, as they don't show their working.

But we know from the census that the total number of trans people in England & Wales is 262,000, so about 295,000 for the UK as a whole.

9 (probably 8, but let's be generous) murders since 2008 is 0.64 per year.

Which is 2.16 per million.

Quite a bit lower than 11.7 per million for the population as a whole.

Yes. Only after it was pointed out that the murder rates were very low in recent years, you posted your three metrics.

You pivoted.

It is quite clear to any one reading.

thanks! that's compelling. so, when it comes to murder as a metric TG are not amongst the most vulnerable. I accept that.

In my report on murder rates in the US, I assumed mix sex in population percentages for trans and non/binary because I used the number calculated by Pew Research who defined it as all transgender and non-binary persons.

Despite that, those mixed sex numbers still had a lower murder rate than women or children.

I only have US data, but I think it's relevant as we know male pattern violence has similar trends around the world.

Rates are per 100,000

There were 24,576 recorded homicides in 2022. 1,011 of these murders were children under the age of 14. A rate of 1.7

4,618 women were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 2.8

19,958 men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 12.3

Pew Research in 2021 found that about 1.6% of US adults are transgender or non-binary.

32 trans people murder is a rate of 1.28 so BELOW the rate of women being murdered and FAR below the rates of male populations.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

I agree there are many possible vulnerabilities for any group other than murder.

But trans people not being murdered is certainly a good thing.

Because they’re mostly white middle aged men who’ve discovered that no longer gets them to the front of the queue. So they pop on a dress and some lippy and suddenly they’re top of the pile again.

Sure - because it dawned on me vulnerability isn't just about murder. That what thinking people do.

we know male pattern violence has similar trends around the world.

Similar patterns, but the absolute levels vary quite a lot.

The rates you gave are per 100,000, so we'd need to multiply by 10 to compare with the UK overall rate of 11.7 per million

So the US figures would be:

• children under 14, 17 per million

• women, 28 per million

• men, 123 per million

• trans people, 12.8 per million

(And from a separate piece I've been reading about US murder rates, the US Native American population is almost exactly the same size as the trans population, but the murder rate is 10 times higher - so that would be 128 per million.)

A sidetrack from the original question, but a set of numbers that make me very glad indeed to live in the UK rather than the US.

that is good to know thanks Delphinium

But how do we know they are trans if they identify as the opposite sex?

@EastLondonObserver the other 2 stats you posted are also questionable. Re transpeople more likely to be a victim of crime, we all know the sort of crimes they are victims to on here. Perhaps if TRAs were not so quick to scream 'crime!, transphobia!' at every little thing we'd have more faith in the crime stats.

Re HIV - it's not clear from that article if it is mainly Transwomen (biological males) or Transmen (biological females) who are seeking treatment for HIV positive because on the pie-chart it states females, but in the notes it states Transwomen, who would be males. I'm assuming it is Transwomen, so males, because that correlates with the statistics for the general population (1/3 females, 2/3 males in 2019 - total 98 552, including 285 children under 15)

www.nat.org.uk/about-hiv/hiv-statistics

There is no hate towards transpeople on here, and I think we all recognise the extreme vulnerability of some transpeople, particularly transmen, but it's certainly not all. There are statistically more vulnerable women and children in the UK, so why focus on trans when it comes to policies?

Who’s more vulnerable though? The convicted male sex offender who identifies as trans and wants to be housed in a women’s prison? Or the actual women in the women’s prison, the great majority of whom have not been convicted of a violent or sex offence but have been victims of male violence/sexual violence themselves?

Oh it’s so difficult and nuanced, isn’t it. Absolutely no difference in levels of vulnerability between those two groups at all. Rapists vs victims of rape: who can possibly call that one?

For PP who mentioned the Native American male homicides. (And yes, it's shit re: violence in the US. It's partially why I still vote for Democrats despite them being idiots about gender identity.)

332 Native American men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 13.5.

11,935 Black men were murdered in the US in 2022. That's a rate of 52.7!!!!

Native American men make up roughly 1.4% of the US population. Pew Research in 2021 found that about 1.6% of US adults are transgender or non-binary. So similar sized populations.

Compare 32 trans people murdered vs 332 Native Men for a similar sized population.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

I don't have time to dig for this, but the suicide rate for any demographic in the US (again, sorry to be American centric but it's my area of expertise and I post to be helpful in noting trends) is highest among male Native Americans aged 12-24 (might be 14 not 12, again, I need to confirm) but they NEVER get the media coverage a similar sized population gets.

Also, rape and sexual assaults against Native women is some of the highest in our country (again, need to dig for exact numbers) but this issue gets very low coverage and never celebrity endorsements.

If there's one thing that pisses me off about the trans/queer/non-binary narrative is that it is a MASSIVE distraction from really big problems affecting marginalized women. Like we didn't already have too many things to address in feminism, but now TRAs are wasting our intellectual, emotional, and physical labor. Not to mention wasting our TIME.

I think the most vulnerable narrative is unhelpful

All vulnerable groups need help and we need to find ways to do that that everyone sees as reasonable

So for me a grc could be given to whoever
But the equality act should be strengthened so it's clear that for things related to sex it's sex at birth that matters

So the difference in likelihood to commit violence is sex based
Sport's performance is sex based

And I think anything that is treating people differently because of gender should be made illegal

So far though no one has managed to share a single example of anyone claiming TG are “the MOST vulnerable” in the UK

I think it’s only a “massive distraction / waste of time” because you choose to put up such rabid opposition to the needs of a small group. Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward and go back to your good works for cis women who are half the populations.

it’s you who have let yourself become distracted.

Tom Swarbrick currently talking a huge amount of sense about the GRA on LBC in response to Charles Faulkner talking rubbish.

Who has the highest chance of being murdered?

cis males.

obvs no one gives a fuck about that here, though.

"Just let them have the low-impact demands they put forward"....

BE KIND YOU WENCHES

Ah yes, I must've missed all the threads you started about male on male violence.