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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

210 replies

taracetamol · 18/01/2023 18:54

Trans people are often described as being the most marginalised and vulnerable in society.

I do not pretend that people who identify as trans aren't subjected to prejudice or ridicule and indeed, sadly, threats of violence. Yet how is it quantified that they are THE most vulnerable within the UK? What evidence supports this? I genuinely want to know because I find it difficult to find statistics that relate exclusively to the UK.

OP posts:
Kucinghitam · 19/01/2023 12:48

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/01/2023 11:51

It’s the foundational lie of the “trans rights” movement.

Up till recently it was pretty bloody obvious to all liberal types that women (female people) are more marginalised and vulnerable than men (male people).

Obviously this made it hard for a group of male people to make demands that took away rights from female people, that actually left female people even more marginalised and vulnerable than before, and to be supported in those demands by people who identified as liberal.

Hence the need to construct a narrative saying this particular group of male people are more marginalised and vulnerable than women/female people; the most marginalised and vulnerable community in the whole of human existence, in fact.

A tidy bit of funding goes into this propaganda, and job’s a goodun.

It never had anything to do with facts or reality; purely with finding a way to make a male rights over female people movement something that they could dupe liberal minded people into supporting.

Now the “liberal” world agrees that female people are the oppressors and this group of male people the most vulnerable and marginalised ever, that we are using our vast female privilege (they’ve named it “cis privilege” to make it a bit harder to spot the lie) to deny these poor suffering male folk their basic human rights. We just don’t want to give up all that power we have. We are bad, bad bigots.

And so on, and so on.

This right here 👆🏼

GailBlancheViola · 19/01/2023 12:48

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 19/01/2023 12:33

There is certainly a lot of hate for them on this forum.

No there is not.

Pathetic little soundbites like that are just that pathetic.

Datun · 19/01/2023 12:54

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/01/2023 11:51

It’s the foundational lie of the “trans rights” movement.

Up till recently it was pretty bloody obvious to all liberal types that women (female people) are more marginalised and vulnerable than men (male people).

Obviously this made it hard for a group of male people to make demands that took away rights from female people, that actually left female people even more marginalised and vulnerable than before, and to be supported in those demands by people who identified as liberal.

Hence the need to construct a narrative saying this particular group of male people are more marginalised and vulnerable than women/female people; the most marginalised and vulnerable community in the whole of human existence, in fact.

A tidy bit of funding goes into this propaganda, and job’s a goodun.

It never had anything to do with facts or reality; purely with finding a way to make a male rights over female people movement something that they could dupe liberal minded people into supporting.

Now the “liberal” world agrees that female people are the oppressors and this group of male people the most vulnerable and marginalised ever, that we are using our vast female privilege (they’ve named it “cis privilege” to make it a bit harder to spot the lie) to deny these poor suffering male folk their basic human rights. We just don’t want to give up all that power we have. We are bad, bad bigots.

And so on, and so on.

This.

Calling rapists marginalised for being given incarcerated women as part of their jail sentence. Or calling rubbish male athletes marginalised for scooping awards, trophies, and records from women. Calling men marginalised for the relentless disregard of women's consent and boundaries.

It's all nonsense.

The power of this 'marginalised' group is immense. Every single paper in the land is talking about them. All political parties are talking about their outrageous demands. Demands that they've even managed to get a government to the brink of implementing.

It never had anything to do with facts or reality; purely with finding a way to make a male rights over female people movement something that they could dupe liberal minded people into supporting.

Exactly. How else are you going to get worthy virtue signallers to exercise their secret sexism?

Now the “liberal” world agrees that female people are the oppressors and this group of male people the most vulnerable and marginalised ever

This is absolutely nailing it. Rape victims told to reframe their trauma because it upsets transvestites and transsexuals? Female prisoners being penalised they object to male sex offenders in their cells? Lesbians being ordered to disregard their sexual orientation in favour of these men lest they be accused of sexual racists.

Yet women are being told, across-the-board, and many are bloody well believing it, that it is they who are the oppressors of men.

And not just regular men, but determined, powerful men who want to destroy their sport, intimidate them in prison or worse, eliminate all the tools women have fought to oppose sexism and violate all their boundaries.

And, as mentioned, one of the ways it's done is by making trans not just one thing. Confused children are being utilised and sacrificed for this body of males.

Marginalised, my arse.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 12:55

Not sure being white middle class and middle aged is a proection against doestic violence killings the way being white middle class and middle aged means you are unlikely to be killed in a gangland knifing or pub brawl.

I agree, but I don't think class adds anything to this specific analysis of MTF murders which is very clear, you would get bogged down in defining who was middle class.

Cuppasoupmonster · 19/01/2023 12:55

Because Owen Jones says so.

Datun · 19/01/2023 12:57

applesapplesapples · 19/01/2023 12:05

Answer me this: if I was a straight man who transitions to become a woman, I'm still attracted to women - have I magically become a lesbian now?

Yes, and the head of Stonewall has told lesbians that they must learn to accept penises, otherwise they are guilty of sexual racism.

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:06

OP - do you have any evidence of your claim?

Cuppasoupmonster · 19/01/2023 13:07

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:06

OP - do you have any evidence of your claim?

Can’t prove a negative. The onus is for people who make this assertion to prove it.

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:10

Workerbeep · 18/01/2023 19:05

Good question of which I’d also like to know the evidence and criteria which backs this up.

I’ve just watched Stephen Flynn of the SNP state this in parliament.

what make me question this…
from 2008 to 2022 eleven trans people were murdered in the U.K.
in 2020 one hundred and ten women were murdered by men 🤔

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:11

Her claim that people say that trans people are the most "marginalised and vulnerable in society"? I can quote you multiple politicians just this week.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:12

If trans people were more vulnerable than the rest of the population to physical violence, why wouldn't they have a higher murder rate? Genuine question, I'm interested in what you think.

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 13:14

I thought I'd do a little comparison between the ONS data on areas with highest number of people not identifying with sex registered at birth and stats relating to income inequality. It doesn't show much as I haven't taken account of people who didn't answer the question on the survey. Just out of interest, I was expecting numbers to be high in privileged neighbourhoods, thinking this is to some extent a middle class phenomenon - as demonstrated by the appearance of Kensington, Oxford and Cambridge.

The PP has it spot on - there is a correlation between teens and young adults identifying as trans/non-binary/other random identity having comorbidities which make them already vulnerable, and I think this explains the high numbers in some of the deprived areas. I'd be interested to be able to look at stats by area for domestic violence and sex crime, and break it down to numbers of girls identifying as boys. Interesting to note that in Newham & Brent it is mainly females identifying as transmen.

Also very interesting to see on the map; it's almost as if there's some kind of social contagion going on isn't there? I'd be interested to know which LAs are teaching this in schools. But then the opposing argument could be that if children are educated about it they feel free to 'come out' in their trans identity.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021

Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?
Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?
Helleofabore · 19/01/2023 13:15

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Why would you do away with an accurate comparison group? Males are the correct comparator group for males.

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 13:18

btw my post about social contagion was tongue in cheek/sarcastic.

and my comment about the survey was to do with the figures given on the ONS website being the percentage of people who DO agree gender is same as sex registered at birth, but doesn't account for GC people who may not have answered the question. I downloaded the excel sheet to see if the ONS had a total percentage of people who identify as other than sex at birth, but they don't, so I'd have to take time adding up the separate %s for different identities to get those figures, which would take far too long!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:19

Very interesting to see a breakdown FriendofJoanne. Apparently "looked after children" in local authority care are disproportionately likely to be referred to gender identity specialist care.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:22

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

My issue with doing this (and it doesn't matter to the U.K. stats, whereas it does in the US and Brazil) is it means we are comparing only a section of female homicides with all trans homicides, which gives a misleading comparison of the per head murder rates.

Helleofabore · 19/01/2023 13:23

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:22

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

My issue with doing this (and it doesn't matter to the U.K. stats, whereas it does in the US and Brazil) is it means we are comparing only a section of female homicides with all trans homicides, which gives a misleading comparison of the per head murder rates.

I agree. I think the that rate of males being murdered should be other males.

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 13:24

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:19

Very interesting to see a breakdown FriendofJoanne. Apparently "looked after children" in local authority care are disproportionately likely to be referred to gender identity specialist care.

Yes, and have a history of trauma, often domestic violence, sometimes sexual abuse, so it's pretty obvious to me why they'd be wanting to identify out of womanhood. I'm a Social Worker but not working so I've had time to look into this, I think for a lot of SWs they make the referral to CAMHS and rely on the 'experts'. I know I thought before I'd got into this that kids would be given therapy, not affirmation.

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 13:25

The highest % of transwomen is in Barking and Dagenham; I don't know what that might link to. Anyone any ideas?

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:29

Cuppasoupmonster · 19/01/2023 13:07

Can’t prove a negative. The onus is for people who make this assertion to prove it.

lol - the claim is that it is claimed the trans people are "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society"

statements from well known figures - e.g. Starmer and Ed Davey don't claim this, they claim they "ONE OF the most vulnerable". Which is different.

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 13:11

Her claim that people say that trans people are the most "marginalised and vulnerable in society"? I can quote you multiple politicians just this week.

go ahead - but I believe Starmer and Ed Davey did not claim "most vulnerable", that claimed they were "one of the most vulnerable"

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:33

Helleofabore · 19/01/2023 13:15

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Why would you do away with an accurate comparison group? Males are the correct comparator group for males.

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

Statistics are clearly not your thing

IcakethereforeIam · 19/01/2023 13:33

Julie Bindel wrote an article, there were a couple of recent threads, about the large number of children claiming to be trans in Blackpool. Although, iirc, she didn't touch on it, Blackpool has the highest number of looked after children in the country and is very deprived anyway. Children's home have, very lucrative for some people, proliferated in the town. So much so that the LA have brought, or are bringing in, legislation to try to control it.

Julie's article touches on the number of sex offenders in Blackpool. I wonder if there's been a similar proliferation in the number of bail hostels. There's likely a lot of former b&bs and hotels that provide cheap accommodation suitable for single men. Perhaps the quantity vulnerable children (however they identify) is also a draw. Cheaper than going to Thailand!

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:35

FriendofJoanne · 19/01/2023 13:25

The highest % of transwomen is in Barking and Dagenham; I don't know what that might link to. Anyone any ideas?

It's a less affluent part of London with an overrepresentation of many categories of vulnerable people.

Helleofabore · 19/01/2023 13:36

EastLondonObserver · 19/01/2023 13:33

Statistics are clearly not your thing

How so?

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