Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

I’m so sorry @Moomoola

I just stumbled across a random Instagram account in which a young woman announced her plan to transition. She explained how looking back at old photos of herself as a teen looking awkward (so far, so universal?) and that she’d made a mood board on Tumblr and realised it was full of men (are you sure you aren’t just heterosexual?).

I got the impression that she sees herself in the future with “a beard and painted nails” - her words - and, as ever, it makes perfect sense to me to use testosterone and facial hair as armour and as a massive fuck you to everyone and everything.

Who can blame these women for grabbing it with both hands?

I hope the road to your DD obtaining T is as difficult as possible.

Oh I'm so sorry to read your update. Hopefully there will be a LONG waiting list for any treatment?

So sorry to hear your news @Moomoola I hope your DD has a long wait and plenty of opportunities to rethink. Wishing you strength.

That is awful Moomola.

Maybe try not to show your feelings if you can possibly help it. Let us hope she has to be referred for therapy first.

Do you suppose if you sent her detransitioner Helena’s account of her experience with testosterone she just wouldn’t read it?

Thank you so much everyone.
thanks delph, michelle it would be NHS which at least gives us a bit of time - I hope. My concern is that X and mum have done this once so will know what to say/ shortcuts.
hag yes, I’ll call the doctor asap.
thanks wednesday I share your anger. This whole thing is so confusing and full of lies. Madness has sneaked in everywhere. I thought I had raised DD to be a feminist and explained coercion etc to her, but.
faffertea thank you. How awful for you to have to refer the patient to a path you disagree with.
i sincerely hope the whole NHS/world wakes up to this. also why? How can NHS justify funding this basic narcissistic nonsense when queues for vital ops are enormous?
jellycats yes, I guess it is armour and a fuck you. I suppose it’s the punk of our time. I think she’s just rebelling, but has got well and truly prayed on, as have we. F.
born I hope so. But I really do feel she’s in the lions den. X and mum are normalising T and being a glitter family.
mum thanks mate.
scrolling I am desperately looking for things to send her - she’s dyslexic so films are good. I have a list of films that might make sense. She tells me that there are hardly any detransitioners and the few are vastly publicised by terfs.
She mentioned it in such a cheery way - though I knew x was there and they were waiting for a reaction. So I tried to be all,’ oh that’s interesting, why do you feel ..etc’ but blew it when I mentioned the side effects of T. She says it’s totally safe and life saving and I sound like I’ve been JK Rowlinged.
If I take all the trans stuff away, my main concern is still that she’s being coerced into being isolated and being told bollocks.
I haven’t called since she told me. I think the main thing is that she DID tell me. I think I need to frame a calm approach. Maybe say, ok, if that’s what you need, let’s explore it together. That’s a lot to think about etc. she says she’s always hated her body etc etc. it’s soooo cliched.
what I want to do is go round there and confront the mum and X. And get her the hell out of there.
I know she won’t come. If I have a chat with the mum, it’ll be all reasonable..and it won’t change a thing. If I get demanding, it will fuel the transphobe crap. I feel like I’m tied to a train track, and cannot see a way to stop the train.
i want to send DD stuff - but X presumably will see - or she’s so daft she will show X.

Aw, OP.

This must be so hard. I'm so sorry.

Thanks arabella

I'm sorry I've no advice for you. Only to look after yourself, make sure you are taking time for yourself. Make sure there is at least one part of your life that is purely for you and you alone. x

Not much comfort but I am impressed with your clarity of thought Moo - you’ve come such a long way since starting this thread.

NHS wait times are a minimum of two years (Wales and the ‘pilot’ services are the shortest) up to 5 years, so unless you have a local GP activist who does ‘bridging’ prescriptions you have plenty of time.

CoL crisis has put private prescriptions for Testosterone gel up to approx £50 a bottle (lasts around a month on a starting dose) so GenderGP is getting increasingly unaffordable for older teens/young adults.

Cass interim review seems to want under 25s with adolescent onset gender dysphoria to be treated more like the new proposed spec for under 18s, so long assessments via therapy and differential diagnosis explored (ASD/ADD/OCD etc) so fingers crossed your DD either desists or is assessed on that more in-depth basis.

As for what she said, well… this is the first generation of girls who have been taught, in school, that womanhood is optional, that it can be medically traded for being a man.:. It’s not surprising that a shit load of them are taking the trade. I suspect I would’ve done it.

Just keep going, mama - try not to dwell on this announcement, it’s just part of the trans-identifying-kid-turns-18 script.

As an aside, I wonder if X is planning mastectomy soon? Because seeing the reality of that might be off-putting to your daughter 😬

Oh, and just to add - I always go in sideways with comparisons - eg ‘I wouldn’t want your brother to take T for body modification via weight training either’ or ‘I wouldn’t want you to have breast implants or mastectomy, and even with breast cancer I would counsel a cautious approach, eg a lumpectomy, where medically possible’.

Focus questions on the intervention, not the identity - lots of top body builder have died of heart problems recently:

https://www.aedleader.com/why-bodybuilders-get-heart-attacks/

@Moomoola on the upside, it's harder for bathtub testosterone to be attained bc in many places it's scheduled as an illegal drug.

I think you should write a script. I can help if you want, I've gotten depressingly good at eggshell walking. Tell her you're calling/writing not out of any moral concerns but bc it's a medicine (be sure to refer to it as such) and as a mother, you've been reading into any medication you or your OTHER son (also essential, this is your hook) take, and would be taking the same precautions if he had to take it. You've been talking to t-men online to "help [yourself] work through this massive change and learn to accept it, and asked about how to make this as healthy and unproblematic as possible," and pass on that information. If she's overweight, tell her about diet and exercise to mitigate risk of blood clots. Vitamin C for bone density loss, and to start getting in regularly w a gyno so they can keep on top of atrophy.

I know it'll be hard wording it that way, but she thinks this is bs made up by phobes. I'm 1000% OK with you passing on my number if you think she'd listen to a v carefully articulating gnc person who's seen this play out a zillion times.

Go take your DS to one of those indoor rollercoasters or hang gliding or feeding baby goats or something, your both deserve some FUN and to build some great memories during this time. Your family won't be held hostage, life is moving on and you aren't going to be the seething, devastated mess the gf is writing you to be in this grand drama she's directing.

Oh OP I'm so sorry You must be so worried for her.

If she is being fed the non stop bull about everything you say that isn't yay do it yippee is just random phobing, then I'd wonder to what extent giving her that response is fuelling her. She's telling you this stuff knowing what you'll say, which makes me wonder what need is being met by provoking this response from you. (And who's need she is meeting, it may not be hers.)

Another option is a neutral putting of the ball back in her court: to at this point say well you know the potential downsides but its your choice. Sometimes the lack of something to push against can cause more independent questioning.

I think this is good advice. Especially if they're even remotely considering buying it illicitly. @Moomoola You could possibly send her info on these deaths and say it is critically important she knows the source of the T is 100% OK because it is not without risks, and she's too young to have life-long heart problems. That way hopefully nudging her to NHS waiting lists and buying some time but also sounding accepting of the decision.

If you gain a bit of time, you can keep going with dropping the rope and hopefully the reality with X will darken.

How has you DH and DS taken the news.

I really am so sorry. It's awful.

Thank you all. And clog thanks for the clarity of thought comment. I dont feel very clear! Sorry not to reply sooner, I'm struggling tbh. All the panic, depression and destabilization feelings from cancer that I thought I'd got over has come back.
I wrote to her g.p with a list of what she's been through that may have triggered this, , and noting comments that she's made that suggest she's not sure - though X will coach her on what to say, I'm sure.
I'm very concernedclog * at your mention of bridging prescriptions. DD has signed up at the doctor near X flat. It may be convenient or it may be that the doctor is the one X sees and they may well be an activist. How do I know? The confidentiality that protects her also excludes us from knowing or being able to parent.
Thank you redbird I may well ask your help - I need to take a while to digest first.
The good thing is she went to see the family therapist who will feed back what they can next week- though how do they deem what's confidential and what's not? We don't feel like we are getting anywhere and of course we have to move at DDs pace. So we feel like we are being taken hostage by this conspiracy of silence.Where are we in all this?
. Thanks for the sound suggestions of what to say..but DD obviously not going to contact us at all now she's dropped that little bombshell. It's like it's being orchestrated to inflict as much damage as possible on us. I've sent a text
Saying can you give me a ring, it's hard being this cool. But I won't hear. I doubt it was right to send too.
I contacted her best friend who said she is debating sending a birthday email - she knows it will be ignored.
DH struggling too.
Were not brilliant, but What did we possibly do that deserves this?

Massive hugs to everyone else going through this or similar similar. So unnecessary.

There are a few transactivist-compiled resources online, try googling ‘trans friendly gp’ and the name of the town/city.

Unfortunately, we parents have absolutely no say beyond 18 unless our now-technically-adult children have expressly given permission for authorities to info-share with us (eg I can talk to the GP and DWP on behalf of my almost 23 year old son because we filled out the permission paperwork and he signed it - however we never got around to organising the same with uni which meant I was completely frozen out, even when he desperately needed someone due to be over a hundred miles from home and having a bit of a mental health crisis kid covid lockdowns).

I’m so sorry. It’s a nightmare. The laws are all hodgepodged and mismatched - we can get child benefit for them until they are 19 (if still attending college) but they are considered Gillick Competent (and thus able to forbid the GP from info sharing with us) from approx 13.

They know exactly how powerless we parents are too, because it’s part of the online trans discourse.

Does your daughter know about her New Labour Child Trust Fund? We’ve got approx 9 birth years worth of teens coming of age with at least a 2 grand lump sum they can access on their 18th birthdays and parents cannot do a thing to stop it.

Once they get their national insurance number they can apply to take over the adminning of the account and can withdraw the funds on their 18th birthdays.

I realise it’s frightening but the law says they are fully adult from 18 and we have no say over anything at all (although are still largely expected to pick up the pieces when they make disastrous choices).

Thanks so much for getting back clog the websites opened up a whole world of insanity. Luckily we live fairly rurally and don't appear to be on a list.
Im so sorry regarding your son, it's insane.
Luckily I forgot about/was too broke to d the new labour thing. But thanks, will check it.

They know exactly how powerless we parents are too, because it’s part of the online trans discourse.
It is so, so nasty.

Apropos of nothing really, I chanced on old TV - the goodies - last night. Tim? Thingy dressed as a woman somehow gets into the ladies showers and doesn't know where to look. But manages to peek at the lovely naked ladies. It was funny ( I guess) it's Now a great illustration of men claiming to be trans actually like what they see. Yik.
Time to stop rambling, thank you clog

Every kid got at least £250 and if the parents didn’t invest it, the government did.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-6131715/amp/Is-child-sitting-2-000-windfall.html

Lots of parents have forgotten all about these accounts but our teens know, because they get a leaflet at school, telling them how to find it.

Even if you personally did nothing, your DD likely has at least £1000 in her CFT.

I have big age gaps between my kids and it’s only the middle one (the one who identifies as trans) who has this pot of cash coming 😬🤦‍♀️

This is the leaflet they get from school: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/911284/10_things_you_need_to_know_about_Child_Trust_Funds.pdf

Thanksclog I'm so sorry, what should be nice is a worry. I really hope middle one is thinking cool clothes and car deposit. DD won't know about it, but I'm guessing X will be on the case.
Sorry to drone on while everyone has massive worries too.
If anyone is looking, genspect leaflets on stuff parents should know is very good.
Am supposed to network tonight, so not in the mood.

Ugh. Mini rant ! We are both stressed af. DH telling me I need to speak up in therapy next week. I need to be passionate and say this and that. Well ok then. I can't make him understand that I don't feel like that in the session - it's a grey office. Actually I'm not sure I feel that at all. Don't know what I feel. The trans thing is fin except for T, oh and weaponising it, and using it to get into our spaces etc.. I just chatted to a cool 18 yr old who said, use pronouns and name, don't mention trans - talk about anything else. Anything you say will be transphobic, and you are parents so don't even bother. loads of his mates are trans or tarty, the ' normals' are now a tiny group in the middle
Sounds like letting the rope go is right , apart from the T bombshell. And again I say, grrrr.

💐🍷thinking of you Moomoola

i’m guessing the T thing is not unconnected with you having so successfully dropped the rope. X will definitely have been aware of the lack of things to criticise, and may well be trying to prompt a reaction. It’s properly scary :-(

You know that, essentially you can’t really do anything, so I think you have to just accept that, and hope that NHS waiting times are on your side. Maybe just go back to the not-too-frequent light, bright texts you were sending before?

Omg thanks hag that hadn’t occurred to me. Yes, we are being played.
Now DH who was evil apparantly, gets a random text about her college interview going well. He suspects it’s because she’ll be wanting money to go.
I get a text saying she doesn’t feel like talking to me as I was so transphobic.
I texted ‘eh?’ And got a reply that when she said she was going to take T, I was being transphobic and she just wanted to enjoy her night out.
?!
well I couldn’t think how to justify myself regarding T in a text. So I texted, ‘ oh yeah!’ … ‘how was your night out?’ Well it made me laugh. It would have made her laugh once.
im SO over feeling like this!

You must be exhausted with it all Moomoola. I think you're right - selective ignoring when you're being prodded for a reaction. Lots of self care and positive activities with DS.
I know you stopped work at DH's suggestion. How's that going for you?

Thanks mrs overton so nice to hear from you!
thnaak you for the selective ignoring advice. It’s thanks to you guys that it’s dawned on me it’s prodding for a reaction . I hope anyway.
Thanks for asking about little old me!
That’s a good point. I still do one afternoon a week (!) but think often about returning to my main job tbh. I’m the DIY queen as a handyman charges a LOT more than I earn. So it makes financial sens, I guess. But yes, do miss people and validation. And I am getting slower! but omg, the house needs a lot of tlc!