Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Thanks michelle,of course that’s what would happen. I don't want to talk to X or mum, Even if DH wants me to. Ive done that to try and defuse the situation and don’t want to put myself though it again. DD struck me as very naive and has no idea of the hurt she’s caused. I’m just fed up. I don’t want to call DD and be all nicey nicey. I don’t want to talk freely as X will dissect it all. As you’ve all said, dropping the rope seems most effective, but bloody hard and then DH thinks I’m doing nothing. Also aware that I am doing the same old moans on here.
I am irritated with me, I’m off to kick a few puppies. Grrr.

zebracat you are brilliant, thank you. I’ll find a nice somewhere for the weekend, he so needs a break.
meanwhile I’m printing this out, wot you wrote, and going to kick a few bluebells.
’Nothing will piss Xs mother off quicker than shouldering the burden of your troubled teen while you have fun. ‘
well OKAY then! Hotel it is!

@Moomoola Nono sniff the bluebells and breeeaaathe!

I’m going to a bluebell wood later. If I see a crazed woman destroying them, I ll say hi!

😃 look forward to it!

@Moomoola never apologise for moaning here! We all have your back and are happy to be somewhere you can vent and then not have dd,x, x's mum see that they are affecting you so much, as sadly I feel that is one of the fuels to their fire and helps with their bonding if you can call it that to have you as a 'common enemy' if I make sense?
Go and do some primal screaming into the void!

You HAVE cheered me up. Ta! 🥾🌸🌸🌸

Hi Moomola,

Sending you symapthy. Glad to hear you're going to take a break and hopefully DH with you!

And by the way: just because someone goes on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
it doesn't mean that they are right.

Don't ask me how I know that.

😆

same in our house too.

Oh, to be young, naive and thoroughly convinced of my own self righteous importance again!

’When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.’

Mark Twain

Unfortunately while this quote may help explain our clashes with our adolescent and young adult children, it doesn’t help explain our clashes with their dads!

@Moomoola - you know what works best from your own experiences- slack rope, friendly responses when required and keeping yourself (and your son) occupied with some trips and activities based on what you actually want to do, not what someone else thinks you should do.

Now that sixth form is almost over your DD and X are going to be living every day in each other’s pockets without much money for travel or partying and no real independence living with X’s mum.
They may find it gets get old very quickly but if your DH starts getting angst your DD will likely dig in as long as possible rather than come home to his moods.

If your DH wants her home he needs to work on becoming the magnet that attracts her back, rather than the kind that keeps pushing her away.

Teenagers can be WELL stubborn.

😂😂😂😂you are both brilliant!

Aw, I thought it would include your onandonandon quote as well mum you did make me laugh. Cheers all!

I totally agree with the people who have said that you should go and have fun. Not least because I imagine that the motivation for the other mum is that she is the 'tolerant' one and you are the bad guy. In her eyes she is winning (she has your daughter and hers) and you are losing and bitter. If she hears of you having fun, reality might hit home. She is living with two teenagers (who I am sure argue with both her and each other from time to time), paying for everything, sharing her space with two people who probably don't pull their weight, are messy and have no real house cleaning routine. If they have left school, then she potentially has no escape from them 24 hours a day. I don't even think I could tolerate that from my best friend, let alone someone else's teenager.

I wonder if the same could be said for your DD. Maybe she is punishing you for not accepting her authentic pretend self. The power of punishing you is lost when you don't appear to be upset about it. I think you've seen this in your successful 'letting go of the rope' tactics. She's living with a partner who she gets no breaks from and also someone else's mum, which is hardly a relaxing atmosphere. She has no easy cash, no easy lifts and nobody to do things that parents often do for their teenagers, like make them a sandwich when they can't be bothered to get off the sofa. It's a world of difference between asking your mum for £30 to go out and asking someone else's mum. I'm sure she really misses home but is too stubborn to admit it. Nothing is easy about being in another person's home. Everyday things have that edge of awkwardness: you can't stick on the telly or change the channel whenever you feel like it, you can't eat the last donut, you can't have a 2-hour bath, you can't go to bed 3 hours after everyone else, you can't rearrange your bedroom or even have your own bedroom...

When people have addictions (which her relationship is resembling), some professionals say to the family to remove all support because it's only when they hit rock bottom that they realise the gravity of their situation. I wonder if that's what's working in your case. She's an adult who has moved out, so you're letting her face the reality of supporting herself financially and practically. Now you've removed the satisfaction of having everyone's life revolving around her, it's probably not so much fun. The holidays that she's not joining you on, the fun days out, her favourite meals, having mum organise and pay for concerts, being able to invite her friends round without having to ask her partner. And now she faces her 18th without mum organising or paying for a party/trip to Paris. I think you're absolutely right to not mention it and to not give her any money. You don't exist to be used and discarded whenever it suits her. If X's mum wants to keep her, then she can organise and pay for the party. If she doesn't want to do that, then she can send the child home where she belongs.

I think you're doing an amazing job at being both friendly and welcoming while not at all chasing her or getting involved in any drama. You're just happily living your life and happy for her to live hers.

Surely you were going to KISS some puppies @Moomoola not kick them? 😂

You mentioned DH being ill before. Was that a mental health problem? Just wondering if his tiredness and going to bed early could be a sign of depression?

Either way I think a break for you both sounds great but I might say beforehand the subject of dd is banned. There is to be no ranting at you, no waking early to dissect and obsess over it.

That’s an incredible post @FaceLikeCattle. So insightful! Especially these words : The power of punishing you is lost when you don't appear to be upset about it.

It must be so easy to feel like X, her mum and your DD are “winning” @Moomoola, but read that post when you’re feeling defeated and remember that there’s no way that’s a happy household. Not so that you can feel smug and superior. Just accepting facts. They have made their bed and now they have to lie in it. The most meaningful thing you can do is carry on living your life, carving out a path of happiness and contentment for yourself and waiting to see what your DD’s next move is.

Thank you very much all.
thank you facelike agree with jellycats what a wonderful, helpful post. I need to pin it to the fridge. I appreciate you all taking the time and consideration to write so empathetic ally and wisely. We are doing our best to get on with life as suggested. ( although I’m procrastinating on cleaning atm!)
faffertea he nearly suddenly died, and that naturally is followed by mental struggles. He is much recovered, thank goodness, but this has knocked him for 6. So, yes, I do suspect depression, poor chap.
Kiss puppies!?! No puppies ( or bluebells) were harmed in the making of this post. Though there is an old football that’s now up a tree😂
good news! DH texted a friendly hello to DD and got a reply. Just a hello back, but it’s really helped us both. It’s that ridiculous raising and dashing of hopes.
we are trying to play it cool and get on with having fun. We ended up staying home, but buying huge amounts of treats. Yum!
DH and I saw the family therapist. The main reason for us going was that DD was seeing someone from the same organisation, obviously we are not privy to what is said, but our reasoning is that this is a family! A system! Why is no one including us?! Our therapist finally said they will try to get DD to come to a session, without us, initially, but it’s DD led. They don’t seem to get that DD will probably be primed by X and then tell whatever is said to X and X will twist it. I am tempted to cancel, I am concerned they will make it worse like the UTTER MORON that passes for a guidance teacher.They also seems to have totally forgotten DD mentioned top surgery in her initial letter. Yes! We told you that! Why are you surprised! And yes! We do think X is manipulative! And yes, of course DD isn’t totally innocent, duh. And yes, we will have mucked up too.
It. Is. Not.A.Healthy.Relationship. Grrr.
I’m tempted to send DD a few select links, but again, our communication is so fragile, the slightest question and she will vanish again as she protects her mental health.
seems all I can do is be cool, while she is spoon fed crap. SO FRUSTRATING. Where’s those puppies, I mean football. Where’s the WRN membership form.

Morning Moomoola, nice to hear from you, glad you were able to have some nice times this weekend.
if I were you, I would want so much to kidnap dd and spirit her away to somewhere you could deprogramme her! However, that’s obviously not an option and you are having to do it the hard way. No advice to offer, but lots of support. I think you’re taking the right approach with the slack rope & putting as much energy as you can into having a good time with dh & ds, keep going x

Thank you hag We are finding things tough so we appreciate that!

Hello, well we finally got to chat on the phone and she said she's going to the doctor to start the road to testosterone as she hates being a woman.
Utterly gobsmacked.im convinced she's being brainwashed by X and mum.
I tried to say oh, why, what about side effects, how can filling a female body with male hormones be good .
The phone cut out but she texted later to say she didn't call back as she had wanted to enjoy her evening. She says it's not bad, I'm just being fuelled by transphobes and it's life saving.

Hugs mum and clog and everyone else going through this utter insanity.

I'm sorry, Moo. I hope, I sincerely, sincerely hope she won't start the testosterone. It can cause permanent damage so quickly on women.

My heart is going out to you. I wish I had better advice.

@Moomoola do you believe her re the testosterone? Am assuming this is private not nhs? Who's paying for it if so?
Is she just ramping the stress up for you do you think to try and force your hand? (In to what I have no idea!)

Oh Moomoola, I’m so sorry it’s gone this far, how incredibly stressful for you. 💐💐💐
Wonder if you can talk to your family doctor about this? I don’t understand the process, but if she has to go through them first to access NHS care then at least they can make sure that she has all the information before she makes a decision

she said she's going to the doctor to start the road to testosterone as she hates being a woman

I'm so sorry @Moomoola .

God. We easily get angry at the TRAs for the damage they've done, but this makes me think we, as women, feminists, have dropped the ball too.

I hated being a women in my early twenties. I hated the men leering, the groping, the near constant worry I had to protect myself, the fear of being alone when out at night, or even living alone as I did.

But I had second wave feminism to explain what was going on, why it was unfair, why I should be angry and fight back. I could talk it out with friends on the same wavelength. I had solidarity, support.

This generation have fucking queer theory as their route out of oppression. It's a double injustice for females: 1/ the difficulty of being a women (totally unresolved and unchallenged), plus 2/ surgical mutilation.

This makes me so damn angry!

Feminism can't be only a political movement or the responsibility of academia. Because the politicians are fickle and the academics are away with the fairy's or up their own arses.

It has to be rooted in our HOMES. We can't rely on society to protect our daughters or women in general. We need to marry the right me and raise our daughters as feminists.

@Moomoola , your experience is heartbreaking but, as the mother of a daughter less than ten years behind yours, I've thought and learned so much. I hope your DD doesn't go through with it. I'm filled with rage on your behalf. So so angry. It's mobilising though. I'm going to fight back hard against this misogynistic cruel movement.

And to make me even angrier... I went off to find feminist books for my young DD, and found this: www.nypl.org/books-more/recommendations/essential-feminism/teens

Scroll through. See how they've conflated Queer Theory with Feminism. It's just insane. You can see why young women, craving an answer to what it is to live as a young women in a hostile male world, find this CRAP as their way out. So angry.

I completely get your fear in this @Moomoola, we know what testosterone does that is irreversible. But her GP is unlikely to start testosterone themselves. They may well refer her to GIDS but the waiting time is currently about 3-4 years which does at least give time to get her out of this. The worry would be if she starts buying it online so while I completely agree with you if she is totally convinced testosterone is right etc etc then rather than telling her she shouldn’t go down that route (which she can then argue is you being transphobic) maybe focus on saying ‘don’t buy it online, you don’t know what you’re getting, it’s not regulated in the same way’ in the hope that by the time she gets to GIDS she will be several years older and hopefully far away from X and this nightmare.

Also to say even if her GP refers, that doesn’t mean they agree with it. I have had to refer one 17 year old even though I completely disagree because that is currently the NHS commissioned pathway. I’m quietly encouraging my patient to be open minded, to talk to his parents and not to do anything he can’t go back on.