Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

She’s trying to minimise her last message, perhaps to self soothe or perhaps to deflect from having shown you a vulnerability. How about something like…

‘Is that ‘ah well’ an ‘ah well’ of regret or of relief? Either is valid!’

(Teens love declaring everything ‘valid’ in current days!)

I think that's a good idea.

Mumsnet committee says send a heart emoji.

My thought about DD's birthday - and I'm sure wiser people than me will say if this is a bad idea! - is to offer her a posh night out (dinner, show, gig?) with a guest that she chooses (who could be X, but don't suggest X, just "anyone you like") as a birthday treat?

Then you don't have to spend time with X, plus you are showing respect for DD as an adult who chooses her own company, and creating an 18th birthday event for her.

If she ums and and ahs then ask her if there's anything else she would like to do and let her have a think and get back to you. Offer made but no pressure.

btw I don't think you can be manipulated by DD. Sure, what DD does and says affects your feelings, but she 100% does not control your actions. You don't just dance to her tune and you don't just react against her either. You reflect and you take advice from different places and then you decide what to for the best.

Moomoola I think it's AWESOME she reached out to you to say how she feels at a party. That's huge. Teen usually want to prove how independent they are. She misses you. She also sounds like she needed some advice or comfort. Maybe say, "those feelings gets easier to handle when you get older but it's normal to experience that once in a while. Maybe find someone who also looks uncomfortable you can go up and talk to?"

I think sending a 'hugs' or a 'heart' emoji is the way to go. Just that the person is heard and loved.

I think it's a bit dismissive. I think I would give a bit more support than that. It doesn't have to be offers of help if you don't feel up to that, but just to say, I love you and I'm here for you seems important.

I would keep it light and normal. How do you normally text her? If you do emojis, do that. If you often tell her you love her, say so.

But don't do anything that's unlike you, otherwise it makes your messages feel loaded with unspoken intent. That's not really dropping the rope. There's still something in there to mull over, analyse, interpret get angry about. Remember: withdraw the drama so her relationship with x is left unsupported by fighting the good fight for the cause. Leave it naked and exposed as a hollow shell. Don't play the game.

Warm happy light texts are enough for her to know you're still there, and you haven't rejected her.

In the meanwhile - really important - keep living your best life. Occasionally mention something lightly and in passing: 'Oh, forgot to tell you I saw [...] a couple of days ago. They say hi'. That sort of thing. Really light. You're keeping her posted, but you're not using your best life as a tool to manipulate her.

My guess (only a guess) is that your time away with DS probably made her feel really wistful and possibly a bit left behind and alone. I think you want to give a faint impression you've sort of moved on and accepted things but still love her. It's sad, but she might feel lonely stuck with x. But it's up to her 'accept things' as well, which might be to live in anger with x, or come back to you. You are effectively calling her bluff.

Your DH is a problem though. His anger and inflexibility will just fuel the drama dramatically and take you straight back into the war zone. I feel for him though: I'd hate to use DD's new name. I think I'd stick with my DD's childhood nickname instead, and hope that is enough.

You are doing brilliantly x

I’ve just read this whole thread over the last 24 hours and I think you’re doing incredibly @Moomoola. Calm and steady with dd even though you feel like screaming.

I think as others have said it’s really important to stay calm and rational. To make sure that whenever dd needs to (and at some point she will) there is a road out of this and back to her family. To do that though, she needs you to continue to be calm and non judgemental.

X has created a narrative where you are the evil transphobe parents and to keep her hold on dd she needs you to play that role. Partly because she has her own narrative (which she has probably been at least partly groomed into believing) that everyone hates trans people, they have to fight for everything because they are so despised. But also because it reinforces the “us and them” narrative she is feeding dd. No one understands dd like she does, only she loves dd really and only their love and relationship will get them through, it’s ‘us against the world’. All very theatrical for someone who loves the drama and needs to control and isolate dd. If you don’t play that part, she can’t use it to feed her story.

Sadly, I think that means your DH is wrong and his suggestions and behaviour will only push her away rather than pull her towards you.

I think you mentioned that dd is autistic/adhd and I’ve been thinking about how this might be contributing to the situation. Ignore me if I got that wrong but many autistic people and some people with ADHD esp the over focused subtype have an overwhelming need to control their environment. It’s their way of trying to navigate a world set up for NT people, that doesn’t make sense to them in the same way or is not experienced by them in the same way. I wonder if this could explain some of DD’s behaviour of arranging to speak/meet but then cancelling. She wants to do it but that means losing control and that makes her feel anxious so she avoids that feeling uncomfortable and regains control by cancelling. It makes me think that perhaps her talk about boundaries is her trying to explain this too? Does she have any PDA traits? It’s important to know then that this is not her being manipulative or playing games or trying to control you. It is her way of protecting herself from the stress and anxiety of interacting in the world.

Reading your posts I’ve also wondered about your DH and whether he is ND? Again, it would explain his ranting, lack of understanding/empathy for your approach, his demands that you do things his way and failure to see that firstly his approach might be wrong and secondly that he can’t expect you to essentially be his servant or his deputy, carrying out his instructions without question or ideas of your own. Has he always tried to parent dd in this way? Again, some autistic people (and children in particular) find what might be called ‘my way or the highway’ approaches difficult because it can conflict strongly with their own internal need to do things a certain way to help them function in an NT world. In some children it can lead to outbursts, meltdowns and outright defiance but in others it can present as withdrawal, shutting off relationships and shutting down. Perhaps if that is the case and your approach has been different that is why she engages with you but not with him.

Sorry that is a long post but just some thoughts on what you’ve said. I hope you find some time over the weekend to do something for you, even if just to sit with a coffee or have a bath.

Some food for thought there @Faffertea

Let's just say my household is pretty ND, us two parents to start with, and I'm seeing it in our DD too. We all struggle with control & anxiety.

@BezMills
We’re going through assessment with 10 year old ds so I’m reading and learning a lot!

Look what has happened as a result of you not being open to new ideas. I hope your child returns, but she will only do so once you provide her reassurance you will be accepting of transgender people. It's not that hard to be open to it and it would've saved a lot of stress on both her and your parts.

I am not saying it is your 'fault' she ran away, and I'm incredibly sorry that that has happened to you as it must be distressing. But you have the ability to rectify it by offering to listen to her views without judgement

When you say " open to a new idea" do you mean being open to believe that it is possible to change sex, and that cross sex hormones and possibly a mastectomy are no big deal? Or that women's rights and protections must be scafriced for that belief?

@NotHavingIt
Ignoring DD's feelings won't make them disappear. But things such as using the correct name, pronouns, etc are not biologically impactful on the body so I don't see any harm with that even if you have doubts about allowing any procedures. If the child has a safe space to discuss feelings then they can be approached together instead of with hostility

It sounds to me as if this mother is handling the situation in a way which she feels she has to - and telling her thhat things are effectively her fault is not helpful.

There is no such thing as a trans child. What there are are children who are struggling with emotional and mental health issues. If you have read Hannah Barnes book about what went on at the Tavistock clinic you will know it is not a neutral act for a trusted adult to start affirming a trans identity and using pronouns - as this often traps the child into the assumed identity and makes it more difficult to desist.

Feel free to start a new thread with whatever ‘advice’ you have for generic parents in this position, however ‘look what you’ve gone and done, this is your fault’ is both inappropriate and pointless commentary on a personal support thread.

I wouldn’t be using a new name. It is perfectly possible to Politely use no name at all. If she noticed, Id just agree I wasn’t using it, cos it didn’t sit right with me. But I would not debate it. Honestly, don’t overthink it, keep things light, resort to cliches.
I think you need to get your husband on board. Fact is you can both obsess over the loss of your daughter, scream and stamp and put your life on hold, or you can think , this has come earlier than we expected and might end in tears, but meanwhile we have more space time and cash for us. Let’s party!
Nothing will piss Xs mother off quicker than shouldering the burden of your troubled teen while you have fun. Worth it for that alone. Really, make sure a week doesn’t go by without something special happening in your house, even if it’s a small thing.

Thanks arabella that’s a really useful link. thank you!
lilybestythank you, I’m glad it helped! I’m full of admiration too, the support and advice on here are so fantabulous. I’d be utterly lost without it.

thanks highdays. DH just wants her back. He writes texts and deletes them, he stops himself calling her.it’s horrible. he doesn’t dictate so much as we try and work out what to say together, but he is obviously devastated. He thinks by being too jolly we are giving her a lifeline so she feels OK to carry on. his male friends suggest letting her know we love her but as she’s chosen to be on her own, well ok then, and cutting off her phone.
thank you everyone for the text advice!
’Mumsnet committee says send a heart emoji’ thanks, this made me laugh arabella
heart emoji and some sympathy sent!
i casually texted,’Wotcha doing’ and got a reply ! I Resisted all attempts to make a convo or call as advised..so communication is tentatively open again, phew! You are right about the rope being loose Wednesday. And all.

dear faffertea, blimey, the whole thread!Thank you for your post, I think you absolutely have a point.I’ve long suspected DH and DD of being ND. This helps me put some behaviours into a context, Good luck with the assessments , and to you bez anxiety is horrible.

Thanks pauline of course you are right that DD needs a safe space which is why I’ve always been open about what I’ve been up to in my youff. Trans isn’t exactly a new idea, but this mysogynistic ideology is.
faffertea sums the situation beautifully..

’X has created a narrative where you are the evil transphobe parents and to keep her hold on dd she needs you to play that role. Partly because she has her own narrative (which she has probably been at least partly groomed into believing) that everyone hates trans people, they have to fight for everything because they are so despised. But also because it reinforces the “us and them” narrative she is feeding dd. No one understands dd like she does, only she loves dd really and only their love and relationship will get them through, it’s ‘us against the world’. All very theatrical for someone who loves the drama and needs to control and isolate dd. If you don’t play that part, she can’t use it to feed her story. ‘

nothavingit also beautifully says, and I totally agree with this - ‘it is not a neutral act for a trusted adult to start affirming a trans identity and using pronouns - as this often traps the child into the assumed identity and makes it more difficult to desist.’

And,also agree with ……’When you say " open to a new idea" do you mean being open to believe that it is possible to change sex, and that cross sex hormones and possibly a mastectomy are no big deal? Or that women's rights and protections must be scafriced for that belief?’

Thank you clogkady and zebracat Very wise words! Hmm. Less money needed for air fares..! Travelling would make DD feel she was missing out.

sorry such a long post. Appreciate your help so much.

Trans isn’t exactly a new idea, but this mysogynistic ideology is.

This with bells and whistles attached. Simply and perfectly expressed.

Are you giving her money? Most 17 year olds who choose to leave home against parental advice would not be getting regular cash donations

Thanks wednesday
no,2rebecca we aren’t - and tbf she’s not asked.
i think she’s borrowing off X and paying her back when she has a job ( I don’t know if she has). She hasn’t taken any of her stuff. The mum said she’d bought DD some pants, and that’s it.
i just hope the grief she’s causing is worth it. I also hope she’s not secretly wanting to come home or at least leave, and unable to say. But that’s just wishful thinking.

Travelling might make Dd feel she was missing out. Because she is. But that’s not why I’m suggesting it. You cannot just freeze 3 peoples lives because of Dd. She has moved out. If you all focus on that and wait for her return, you do yourselves and her a great disservice.
I have honestly spent a lifetime putting other peoples needs ahead of my own, and I really really wish I hadn’t.
I am in the opposite situation to you because our inherited Dd is back home after not taking to University. I didn’t realise how much I was looking forward to her going until she came back. She is quite needy and I am so tired of the mental load. My friends are all retired and child free now and doing all sorts of lovely stuff together. And we are looking at Uni courses again only without the optimism. But I have stepped back a lot. She’s doing her own admin, and sometimes making a mess of it , but I’m not stepping in. She’s chosen a course I hate, but that’s her choice. I’ve let her know that we need space, I answer honestly If she asks what I think.
Maybe this is an opportunity for your Dd to start seeing you all as individuals, and vice versa. But it isn’t only transpeople who need to express their true selves. We can all use a bit of that!

Hello zebracat. I really appreciate your post. Especially as DH came in super early and, like every night last week, was upset about DD and exhausted and went to bed at stupidly early o clock. I can hear him upstairs now telling his parents how she doesn’t care. He’d love them to talk to her as she might listen to them, but they of course, have their own problems.

im getting concerned about him, he has a mentally demanding job, was seriously I’ll a few years back and now this. I read him your suggestions of partying which made him laugh, so thanks!

your post got to me ( as quite a few posts on here do) when you said, ‘I have honestly spent a lifetime putting other peoples needs ahead of my own, and I really really wish I hadn’t. ‘
I’m really sorry you feel that. I feel the same. I think our culture is very persuasive that we women do,. Especially mums. Actually I think we’ve all been conned.
Well done for finding your own boundaries and being a strong and brilliant mum.
im thinking what you’ve said about seeing each other as individuals and expressing our true selves.

Sorry, long confused post coming up!
Woke up to More frustration off DH. He's frustrated that I'm pussyfooting around. I need to see the mum etc etc. I can do, she will be pleasant and it might stop the us against them thing. DD seemed happy previously when I met her and X, and said, if this is a healthy relationship, we should all be meeting for BBQs and stuff.( I.e, don't cut your family off!)
DH doesn't want X in the house, ever.
He wanted me to call DD last night but didn't want to join in, he couldn't handle it he was so tired. I didn't - I didn't know what I would be saying. He says, say what you think, but of course it's different to what he wants to say.
He asks why I'm not furious with this mum and X. I don't know, its like I can't find my anger. Also, I am feeling disloyal as I am finding his emotions exhausting. He seems to pick on one thing and get obsessive - it makes him good at his job but it can be very exhausting to live with.
We disagree about a friend who is trying to help by sayiing how important new names are to this generation. DH thinks she's not trying to help. I wonder why I'm defending her when she's not even present, so I'll just say , ' yes dear'.
The trouble is, apparently, that 'we are not coming across as United as you disagree with me all the fucking time'. He might not have said f. But regardless it didn't seem a very united comment!
He is so upset - he wants to tell DD to go on then, follow this path and lose your support/ family / financial help.
He won't of course, but she's hurt him deeply. The longer it goes on the more irreparable it all seems.
I'm re reading the Australian thread, and this thread. their must be a way of resolving this.
Thanks! Needed a vent. DH needs to join dadsnet. I need a coffee.
Regards, if you've got this far !

Sorry but I agree with @Zebracat that you cannot keep living everyone's life circling around how dd wants things to be run. I also agree with dh in that I can't see how dd expects you to have 'normal' family events like bbqs with her and x there. You must know by now that these would involve centering dd and x (and x's mum?) With everyone else walking on eggshells around them, waiting for something, anything for them to be upset/offended by and for them to leave in high flounce and for you to be back on the apology merry-go-round.

So tough @Moomoola . I love the way you apologise for the length of your posts. This is your thread , you can vent! Female conditioning is a terrible thing in so many ways. I think your friend is wrong on the name thing. It does seem like participating in a giant lie. Similarly if you run away from your transphobic family, it’s a bit weird to then start hankering after barbecues.
I do feel for your Dh. But he does seem deeply unreasonable, telling you to fix this, by doing exactly what he says. I think men sometimes have a very childlike view of the family, and expect mothers to be able to magically make the boo-boo go away. So it’s a compliment in a way. But We’re not fucking Mary Poppins. I do think his reaction is EXACTLY the response Dd and X would want and expect, a foaming at the mouth transphobe who wont have X in the house. I know he’s not that, reducing anyone to a stereotype is nonsense, but he is so wounded. And you’re right, he will wreck his health. I wonder if you could surprise him with a wellbeing weekend. He may think it’s nonsense, but a bit of meditation and yoga would do him a power of good. If not that, then walking in nature at the weekends. And even if he wont, you should do it, get right away from all of it. There’s an app called Calm which has some great stuff on parenting at times of stress. Maybe you could play it when he’s asleep, and hope it penetrates! Meanwhile, go find some bluebells in a wood.