Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Have texted DD to say I'm not being manipulative, we all miss her. She's texted back saying she loves me too and she wants to take things slowly.
Ok, so I'm guessing I reply with an ok?

She's just texted that taking it slowly isn't bad. Do really not know how to reply.

I am so sorry for this grinding horror you are going through. She has picked up quite a script there to add to her own real feelings. “She was going to die….” Sounds like the tra words to put into the mouths of teenagers.

Perhaps tell her you accept her letting you know how she feels about everything.

You might even possibly add, “I can see how you thought it was manipulative to emphasise your relationship with DS, and that was wrong of me. It is simply a fact though that you coming along too was the first thing he asked about when we brought up the idea of this trip”

Then as you suggested,

“As we talked about before, it's good to chat about these things or they turn into huge misunderstandings for everyone concerned. Love mum'”

(I’d leave the I’m sorry you feel that way as it could seem a bit negating as it makes it seem you do not accept the feelings.

Perhaps you could add something along the lines of “ I understand this may be too soon for you, and you want space and time, but in case you would like a little time to think about the trip I’ll leave booking for a couple more days.”

Then after a couple of days, book. Try to enjoy your break without her.

Sorry crossed posts. Yes, say okay.

She obviously was trying to say sorry. That is rather a big deal, so take heart.

Thank you scrolling
Am so amazed that you could answe so quickly! I really appreciate it.
I'll do as you suggest and say, in case you need more time to think about the trip...
That's a good idea.
Yes I think you are right. She is trying to say sorry
I'll say yes, ok. Thank you!

I would just be kind but not do any more running. Just say, totally understand. I just want you to be happy. Sorry you won't be joining us on the trip. Let me know if you need anything. Love you.

And then don't contact her again until after your trip.

She needs to feel the distance between you. At the moment she knows she can say jump, and you ask how high. Give her some space to be in her "new life" and see what it really feels like.

I agree with @beabeastlyslumber
I would not say you will give her a few more days to think about the trip.
This would annoy her and also it leaves you dangling when you should book those tickets for you and DS now.

DarkChoc and Beastly are probably right, especially what Choc says that it would probably annoy her.

Thank youdark beastly and scrolling. I’ve already booked for DS and I. I think it’s important that we don’t ruin our holidays waiting about for DD, like I did at half term - and Xmas.
i think you are right beastly not to do any more running. I remember bfs doing this to me back in the day and I always lost respect for them.
time to be independent too methinks!

That's great you have booked for you and DS.
You deserve to get away from it all and spoil the young man while you are there.
Let the holiday be all about him OP.
I personally think a lot has happened for your DD to suddenly come on holiday with you now.
It Will make it very awkward for all of you.
Maybe when you get back plan something like a movie with DD and DS.
Something where there needs to be very little talking.
Hang in there. I know it must be hard.

I think it will feel different for DD if you're not running after her. She'll have the space and distance to start seeing her life as it is, as she's made it with X and her family. You won't be fuelling X with any drama either.

I would just leave her be, now. Obviously reply if she messages you, but don't get drawn into any emotional stuff. If she starts having a go, just message something like, "happy to talk this through face to face. Let me know a date and time that suits you. Love you." Don't get drawn into text or email drama.

Maybe drop her a message when you're back off your hols, something like "We're back now, had a great time. Hope all's well with you. Let me know if there's anything you need. Love you."

No direct questions, no requests, no demands, no apologies. Keep it kind but neutral. Let her come to you.

I'm not saying this will work to get the result you want. But it will definitely kill the drama and it's not going to make things any worse.

I’m not sure if it’s of any use but I read on the PITT website an article by a father who has a child who is trans (boy identifies as girl). It’s an interesting read and there were lots of comments. I do think in situations like you are going through men do handle things differently and while you have reached out for support not sure men do the same. Maybe read it yourself first and then if you think it may help your DH show him - can’t remember the title but it was posted in the last week. There are so many parents going through this in some ways it helps to know you are not alone.

So glad to hear you have booked your trip with DS!

I agree with @beastlyslumber about dialling down the drama. I wouldn't necessarily send a big letter to DD. You are only going on holiday for a week or two, and then you will be back! You are taking gradual steps back to normality, maybe going back to work, going on holiday.

DD needs to get used to the idea that you wont always be there waiting breathlessly for her to get in touch, but you are still there. And the best way is what you are doing; telling her where you are going and when you will be back, and (if she doesn't already know) then how to get in touch if she wants to.

Asking her to join you wasn't a setback at all. It was a lovely idea to let her know she is welcome. OK, she took the opportunity to sound off at you, but actually that tells you how deeply she values her relationship with DS. And I agree with a pp, don't keep on inviting her. You asked, she said no, that's fair enough. It's treating her like an adult. There will be other things you can invite her to another time, and she can say yes when she's ready.

For the same reason I would try to avoid demonising the other family. DD's friend is a troubled 17 year old, not Voldemort. Again she and her friend will feed on the emotional drama.

It ends with I need to be patient and respect her boundaries.

When she (or x) says this, I wonder what she imagines you, your DH and DS are doing in the meanwhile? All sitting around, life on pause, stressed, waiting for her?

The rant will be very influenced by x and x's politics even if it isn't written by her (but possibly is). And you don't deserve that. You're entitled to get a little bit cross at being emotionally manipulated yourself, at the barrage of ranting whipping you into submission. Really, you're a normal loving mum, a decent ordinary family, this melodramatic teenage self-indulgence can go too far.

I'm thinking of my young DS who can push my buttons like no one else until my nerves are at breaking point. I take it and take it, but there is a point where my voice gets very low, very stern, and I firmly say, "I have had ENOUGH!". And he stops. Instantly. Eyes wide, cautious about what he says next. He knows what he's doing. He doesn't hear that voice often, but when he does, he knows he has overstepped the mark.

Figure out where your boundaries are and how much further you're willing to go and be tormented. And then be ready for the moment that your DD needs the tough lesson that, equally, she needs to respect YOUR boundaries - psychological, emotional etc. You are not her punching bag. It must be so awful for you walking on eggshells the whole time.

I suspect that if you hadn't mentioned DS, the fact you invited her at all would have triggered something. They're embroiled in fighting with you.

Let the rope go slack and let them find another punching bag.

❤️

"The rant will be very influenced by x and x's politics even if it isn't written by her (but possibly is)."

I keep wondering that. You seem to be getting two types of text - the ranty political ones and the 'um, sorry Mum' ones.

Plus X would react very badly to DD being asked on a family holiday - look how close she stuck to DD when they went to see your brother.

Glad you've booked the holiday. Make sure DD has an emergency number for you, then give you and DS a break for it all - a little bit of 'me' time for you both.

I just got a long ranting text where I'm basically manipulative for mentioning DS.

This* *is very telling. Your DD does feel bad and knows on some level she's hurting her DB.

Keep up the communication, but also have your boundaries of respect...looks like she apologized when she overstepped. Also, keep inviting her places but give her firm timeline to commit.

Good luck, momma, I'm so sorry this is happening but feel good that she hasn't cut you off. That does happen in some families. Keep the doors open.

I can’t tell you how much your messages mean to me.
DH came in and said he’d imagined that DD had come home and he was so happy. I’m so sad, we both are.
I’ll leave the texting now, you are right, it’s only feeding drama.
I’ve said she’s welcome to come and she’s said she loves me but will take it slowly.
Somewhere in the earlier rant she said it’s been really hard for her too, but she had to do it or she’d die. Sounds so much like trans script.
i haven’t shown rant to DH yet, I think it would be a bit too much at the moment. Though this may be selfish, I’m not sure I can handle his sad reaction!
delphinium that’s exactly it - I’m sure she’s being persuaded to cut us off. I can’t risk that. Ill not text so much, but I think you’re right, there’s a sad child in there who isn’t sure about what she’s doing. I agree X is damaged and she and mum have all my sympathies, but.
It must be affecting DS too as we are now self conscious about losing him and being over attentive if you know what I mean.
justme DH read that last night and was moved. We get a lot of emails from support groups. So I know we’re not alone.
watched black books last night with DS where Bill Bailey leaves ‘home’ - the book shop. painfully accurate! Wonder what DS made of it.
So over this. Love to everyone going through similar. And it seems so many parents are.

Re reading this many times over! Just to say thank you

Have a lovely holiday, Moomoola. Try to entirely let go of all the worry about this while you are away. You have been a bulwark for your whole family all this time.

Somewhere in the earlier rant she said it’s been really hard for her too, but she had to do it or she’d die. Sounds so much like trans script.

It does sound like a script. I wonder if, before leaving, she envisaged the kudos she'd get from this community by actually doing it? That that was appealing. And then school even validated it. It's quite horrific: even the adults colluding to leave no wriggle room for regret or second thoughts.

It's like a kid who foolishly clambers to the highest diving board bolstered by everyone cheering him on - enjoying the accolades and being the brave one - then faces the dizzying reality of height and fear when on the edge of the board and looking down. The crowd yelling "Do it, do it" - knowing if he jumps he'll get cheers, but if he turns back it'll be jeers and laughter and he'll be mocked and painted a coward.

This is why detransitioners who go public are so unbelievably brave.

Your DDs escape is your home, your support, her family.

I wonder if the attempt to apologise, the admission it has been hard etc is a glimmer of a sign that there might be some regret in there but she can't see a way yet to back away from the edge of the board?

I second this. Do try to let it go and laugh and relax.

An add on. Personally, I wouldn't worry or give any thought to x at all. X might be damaged, might have had a horrific childhood etc, but right now she is not your problem to worry about. When you speak or act, it's for your DD and your family. You don't have to struggle to find the words that help x too. You don't have to caveat your feelings around this. If you want to help x AFTER your DD is home and safe and well, that's a different story.

What I mean is - try not to fret about how much power X and her family might have. As @wednesdaynamesep says, don't worry about X at all! Centre DD and the relationship that you and DH and DS can have with her because that's where you all have influence.

You and DH have more power than you think you do. It's a slow, gradual, solid kind of power. The power of being there, being reliable, being engaged, seeing the bigger picture, standing by her. A power that doesn't always get immediate visible results. But even if you don't always have confidence in that power it's still there.

You are building up your power by going on holiday with DS as normal and showing DD that she is welcome. You can't solve her conflict of loyalty with X but you are showing that in a loving relationship there is room for balance and trust. You are going with DS because you love him and he depends on you too, and you are going away yourself because that is healthy, and you will still be there for her afterwards even though she has chosen to stay home with X. You haven't stomped off in a temper or accused her of choosing X over you or threatened her with dire consequences. Your DH is building up his power by getting more involved (and maybe he's a bit of a bull in a china shop but that's OK too.)

It shows how important that holiday is by how conflicted you have been about it, how hard it was to decide and book. That must have taken real strength and courage.

Look forward to your holiday, you earned it!

wednesday your diving board analogy is spot on

Another person sending you a HH & hoping DD comes to her senses soon.

Thankyou bornblonde that means a lot.
tallisker yes Wednesday another incredibly insightful post! I think you are spot on too. I need to help her step back with grace and coolness.

yes, there is a lovely detransitioner on you tube who suggests being less introspective, self centred and to go out and meet people, get a hobby or sport. very brave, Total respect. And to the poster here who detransed. What a journey. Have a hug.

thank you for the encouragement mum it’s hard because first thing DS asked was, ‘will DD Come? She won’t will she?’ 💔first visit to see bro in the family home without mum or DD. A lot of treats for us both I think.

I need a break from DH and his emotions. He is mulling over the suggestions here and planning to scare the mum into persuading X to give up DD. I am concerned though that X knows she has us over a barrel as you’ve mentioned. I’d like to go all eastenders on her ass. ( !).pretty sure it won’t work.
he says thanks for the help. He’s well impressed with mumsnet.
letter and phone are great suggestions, he’s been wanting to write. He doesn’t think she’d be able to hide a phone in a small flat.
and so it goes. He did say he thinks it helping us 3 be closer.
thank you all.