Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Re: the telephone

You could get her an old-fashioned Nokia 3310 which are so good they are still being made. (I still have one as they are so small and fit in any pocket and you don’t have to worry about dropping it out on a walk etc.) You could keep it topped up for her on pay-as-you-go.

www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/nokia-3310

I agree re: a Nokia ‘burner’. Just stick a tenner top up on it for emergencies and tell DD to keep it switched off. They have a enormous battery life compared to a smartphone!

Save the numbers in it using your initials
(D. U. B for dad, uncle, brother) and then save your own number as ICE (In Case of Emergency) and a charity helpline (eg Womens Aid) as SOS.

Save the number in your own phone so if you ever get a text or call you know where it’s coming in from but continue to text her normal number as usual. Don’t text or call the burner at all.

DD can stick it in the bottom of old box or bag, switched off and if X ever finds it DD can just say ‘oh, it’s just an old one that I keep around in case my current phone breaks’.

It’s just a back up plan and having it gives your DD a way back off the wobbly diving board.

This thread is a thing of beauty, btw. So many wise and thoughtful comments, it’s valuable way beyond the trans-specific stuff.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday and that being at your old home brings you comfort.
Motherloss is profound xx

I suspect when your DD says "respect my boundaries" she really means "don't put pressure on me to do things that will displease x".

She is in a controlling relationship and appeasing x will be foremost in her thoughts when responding to you.

I suspect that if you hadn't mentioned DS, the fact you invited her at all would have triggered something. They're embroiled in fighting with you.

I agree with this. She was angry that you mentioned her brother but she was also angry that you were breezily failing to acknowledge the disconnect between you.

Because to act like there was no disconnect, no fundamental clash between your standpoint and hers, doesn’t give her the ammunition she needs to keep hating you.

I agree that you need to protect your own boundaries and your own mental health as this rumbles on.

Does your DS ever text your DD? Just the two of them? My heart broke hearing his pain of losing his big sister.

Good idea re Nokia, scrollingand clogso funny that they are trendy again!

nitdavidtennent yes, I think it’s much more controlling than I thought.
am reading the Australian thread, what an amazing mum, and dr ramani etc.

but I know how hard it is once you are in a controlling relationship to even know you are in one.

im letting the line go slack as suggested. It was the hardest thing not to call her last night.
her friend got into a controlling relationship. I tried to educate her then. I’m wondering if I do text her one day I say something like,’remember how sally cut off all her friends etc, and we said a healthy relationship is etc etc’.

she thinks she is making a bid for freedom. Said since leaving she been to a concert ( I arranged) and had a holiday on her own terms (brothers with no money), got into college( ! Where?).
so hurtful.
DS doesn’t want to contact her,or talk about her. he changes the convo to something silly. Doesn’t want to know about trans stuff.
she texted him when she left and he texted back,’ they’re not that bad’
Awww.

This thread is a thing of beauty, btw. So many wise and thoughtful comments, it’s valuable way beyond the trans-specific stuff.
this. I’d be in bits without you all.

It was really thoughtful of you to have a conversation about this kind of abuse with her, even if she ended up falling into a coercive relationship.

Thank you redbird
haven’t called or texted since Thursday. Seems ages!
keep going over what happened. And wondering what to do next. I’m currently letting it go slack as suggested.

When DH telephoned the mum, she was v civil, giving DH the dads number and agreeing to meet with us.
X called immediately and said how DHs call had stressed her mum out, but also said we could meet and resolve etc. so grown up.
then DD texted that the mums scared, she’s scared, X is scared, she was terrified DH would turn up at the airport and yell.
She now needs time to recover.

am v nervous that DD is being fed ‘go no contact with your parents’ stuff.
sorry, nothing positive to contribute, just mulling. Again!

What about just a sweet, simple text like, "Love you. Just wanted to tell you that. No need to reply."

The gf is clearly spinning a narrative. Have you ever heard of a crybully? It's when one of these queen bee types behaves like every worst stereotype of a toxic high school girl (which she is) and turns herself into the victim of every situation she goads others into.

I've dealt with so many people like that, the best thing you can do is protect yourself by recording future conversations. Have a record of every interaction for when the restraining order comes, because that's what this narrative is leading to.

Upload it (to private) on YouTube or something if your words are ever turned on you again.

In the meantime, let the situation cool down. She wanted time, so give it to her. Don't wait with baited breath, don't let her run things. GF wants a dramatic soap opera. Be the calm. By virtue of not being completely emotionally exhausting, you'll be the port in the storm once gf decides to turn on her.

When DH telephoned the mum, she was v civil, giving DH the dads number and agreeing to meet with us.

Your DH needs to stay civil and not rise to the melodrama. X does not control your or DH's access to her parents, however much she may want to, neither does DD, and "we can meet and resolve things" is just playing at being grown up. Yes of course you can meet, but it's not going to "resolve" anything (don't say that last bit to her)

DH could give things a bit of time to calm down, then contact the dad to arrange a meeting with him. Maybe just the fathers in a pub. Not sure what outcome DH hopes for, but also don't see why they shouldn't have a conversation, sound out how the father feels about all this.

And yes, a loving little message for DD would be fine.

By the way, did you get to speak to the school about communicating with you?

Keeping normal adult lines of communication open is a good idea, so it's not all through two silly teenage girls.

I text (WhatsApp) my DCs (older than yours, OP, and left home) and also my mum (different country) every day that i love them. Just "good morning, i love you"

come rain or shine - we don't have issues with each other - but even if we did, I'd keep up doing that, unless and until they asked me to stop. And that would be hard, but I'd stop.

Strength to you. It is hard, and hopefully she will see that you're not a monster. Sooner rather than later. But never give up hopel

Thank you delphinium am so tempted to ask if she’s up for a meeting. But you’re right, that’s nice with no pressure.
DH still says tell mum we will tell her landlord/ work etc. I still don’t think this will work. it seems if whatever scenario I mentally run through, whether I call DD or don’t, X will use it.

redbird no I hadn’t, but now you mention it..I know a few!
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with so many people like that.
restarining oredr is worrying me - do you mean they will ask for one against us?! I will certainly get a recording app.

thanks guys. Im getting on with other stuff so that’s good. And DS v excited to see uncle - I’m really excited that it’s just the 2 of us actually!

Thanks. I am aware Im burbling. Can’t burble so much to my poor old chums!

DS v excited to see uncle - I’m really excited that it’s just the 2 of us actually!

That's great!

Aww, thanks, just cross posted what a nice suprise!
mum I’ve suggested pub to DH, he thinks I need to call the mum first. 🙄

DH asked the head to call him and he got the guidance teacher instead. DH asked if all this had helped them get their silver charter. And he’s concerned she’s in a coercive situation. The teacher said he’d call DD - did we want him to mention coercion?!
recording this would have been a good idea.
Ive left a message and an email asking the teacher to feedback what he said to DD, no reply. Again I’m not sure I want to cause a fuss - she’s now left school. I’m appalled and should fight it for other families, but.

In other news DH company has set up a glossy newsletter all about inclusivity. So far it’s how to talk to a trans person, a list of all the awareness day/ months / ( there’s a lot) including stonewall riot day. there will be stalls in the canteen, jolly posters everywhere and a very clever young lady who is now hob bobbing with the bosses as the trans expert.
doesn’t mention any other awareness days. Odd that.
grrr!

brefugee that’s lovely. I used to do that with my mum.
I’ll text her later - if only I knew when she’d be alone!

And I will raise it with the school to help other families. This is SO crap. They have no idea of how nasty this stuff is.

Can DH be more forceful and insist on speaking to the head? This is not about politics and awards, this is an issue about the school not communicating with you. Did DD leave school without you being notified? She is under 18, I don't know the law, do the school still have a responsibility? Why is the guidance teacher calling DD if she is no longer at the school?

there will be stalls in the canteen, jolly posters everywhere and a very clever young lady who is now hob bobbing with the bosses as the trans expert.

Detrans awareness day is an annual event now, give DH a poster to put up

pity it's just gone but DH can mention at work that 21st March is odd sock day as Downs Syndrome Awareness day and are they going to mark that? International Women's day 8th March, International Men's Day 19th November and so on and so forth. There are lots of inclusivity days and they really need to get the ones in for Autism, Menopause, Alzheimer's etc etc as well, or they're not being inclusive, they're being exclusive. He should appear a little worried about that, that they don't want to be seen as exclusive.

mum I’ll speak to the head today. This is crap.
detrans day! Brilliant! It so should be normalised that it’s ok to rethink.
brefugee that’s great! I’ll tell him.
they sure have a lot of trans type days.

@Moomoola Said since leaving she been to a concert ( I arranged) and had a holiday on her own terms (brothers with no money), got into college( ! Where?).

Hmmm. Sounds to me like she's scratching around for evidence that supports her choices. Maybe it is a whiff of freedom? It could equally be regret and grasping at anything to rationalise how she's ended up where she is. If it's the latter she needs to sit with this quietly and let these thoughts and feelings settle. The road home a clear option without obstacles.

@Moomoola And wondering what to do next. I’m currently letting it go slack as suggested.

Focus on yourself and find a way to keep your mind occupied so you have a sense of peace. This will sound trite, but during lockdown I taught myself to crochet and started listening to podcasts. My hands and mind are busy, and the relief it gave from worrying about elderly frail parents I couldn't visit was immense. Think of something you've always wanted to do, and do it. Pottery, music lessons, knitting, art ...

I nearly transitioned in my teens I got sucked into this ideology that is way more powerful nowadays with social media. I only chest binded but know two women who have the full surgery and are miserable one is sectioned and regrets it. Its very easy if you are surrounded by other people doing the same when you are a teenager. You feel special and a sense of belonging. Most grow out of it and realise they are gay or bi like myself. If I were you I would play along with it so they don't push back. The person who I know who's now sectioned parents wouldn't call them by their new name and it just sped up the process of them transitioning. Children don't know what they want ten years from now I also have a lot of piecing holes from my emo teen days and I'm thankful I didn't get all the tattoos I wanted.

The amount of people who genuinely have gender dysphoria is so so low but it's through the roof now of cases due to social media and the need to belong. I hope they find their way out of it before they make life changing decisions. I also know people who have had botched surgery and can't have children.

@Moomoola X called immediately and said how DHs call had stressed her mum out, but also said we could meet and resolve etc. so grown up.

I think this sounds like a desperate attempt to retain control. Digging claws in. DH talking to either of her parents without her present means she won't know what's said or be able to influence the conversation.

And ... what exactly are you all trying to 'resolve'?

From what you've said here, I see two parents desperately worried about their daughter who suddenly upped and left.

Whatever the 'issue' is that caused this, it is likely a fabricated one based on ideology and x ranting. Something that could all fall apart the moment your DD thinks through ALL the impacts clearly.

I still feel that the energy and tension and conflict are critical to supporting 'x's narrative.

What happens if that all evaporates and your daughter is left with stillness and the rope gone slack? When x tells her how outrageously she's been treated, will that feel like the truth? When x says your parents want to oppress you, will that feel true? As well as giving your DD space, stepping back removes the tools x needs to control your DD. At the moment it feels like a tug of war. Leave them standing in the field and wondering if tug of war is fun when you don't have an opposing team.

I think the main thing you can do is ensure that your DD knows that the path home is unconditional.

Personally, I would only send a message like this if it is typical of how you used to speak. If it's not, DD will feel you are trying hard and x will describe that as pressure.

For example, I don't text my children like this. My normal is telling them I love them when they're in bed. So in my case, my normal version of a casual loving text would be signing off 'lots of love, Mum'. So, 'The weather is gorgeous today. I'm heading for a walk. Hope you have time to enjoy it. Lots of love Mum'

Something benign, normal, but loving. A glimpse of her old life. An option she can choose rather than a sense you are trying to pull her back to you. Hope this makes sense. It's nuanced.