Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Your dbro is a star! Just being himself with your DD and her pal is so helpful.

And @TheClogLady has great suggestions on how to handle other-mum

Morning! And thank you everyone, really a lot.
another 6am rant off DH.
I’ve said..’" stop bossing me around and demanding I make stroppy phone calls. I'm happy to discuss the situation calmly but I'm fed up with you getting angry at me and trying to order me around on this issue" as 2rebecca suggested ( thanks) many many times in the past million years! It’s helpful that you guys are giving me a bit of clarity on this.
tallisker “How is it a concern that X manipulates your DD, but it's absolutely fine that your DH does it to you?” this is exactly what a counsellor said. 😳

cannot thank you enough cloglady for your time and wise words. I chose to call the mum, ( mainly cos DH nagging me endlessly - thereby proving you beastly brefugeeand tallisker right) kept it light and we agreed to meet up, maybe all together. ! I did as you suggested and asked if she’s had enough of another mouth to feed, of course she said no. She seemed nervous but pleasant. Hope I haven’t made things worse, texted DD saying how lovely to chat, and of course she’d already texted X.

but I learnt from her that the school called HER regarding whether MY DD is staying on! I am shocked and now have to see the school, for fs. This is the same teacher That told me my daughter was now ‘new name’ and referred to her as ‘new name’ in the call. And encouraged her before she was ready, causing her a lot of stress and of course pushing her into an identity. Not impressed. Oh but they have their LGBT+++++++ silver charter! So that’s ok then. Grrrrrr.

DD being talked to by bro today. And I suggested she thinks before she leaves school. Think she’ll be having a kind, but tough day. Chum going to ask X all about her thoughts. Hurrah for bro! And chum, they ARE awesome, you are right. As are you, it is so lovely to be able to offload here. Thanks!

Hm... this is outside my experience but these are my thoughts re the school:

Is there a safeguarding lead you can talk to? Don't say anything to Madam Silvery LGBT+, call the school separately and ask who the safeguarding lead is and (provided it's not her!) make a confidential appointment with them.

Then have an "I wanted to make you aware" kind of conversation. And say that as a parent you're concerned you were left out of the loop regarding DD's future; it's one thing to consult other-mum, but the school must also speak to you because you are still responsible for DD. And is there a reason why you are not being consulted or informed? Perhaps there has been some confusion due to DD leaving her home but you and DH take your parental responsibilities very seriously. And you do expect to be consulted and informed about all decisions regarding DD from now on.

I think it's important to get across to the school that you have not disengaged from DD (DD may be giving a very different impression to Madam Silvery!) , and it would help if that came to Madam Silvery LGBT+ via someone in school management rather than you going head-to-head with her.

It’s great that you have opened a friendly communication between you and the Other Mother and I’m really pleased that she has told you that the school are communicating with her instead of you (which is a clear example of the school undermining your parental responsibility and I agree completely with Mum above, contact the school and avoid the activist teacher who has almost definitely made your family’s situation worse and could well be a danger to your DD’s mental health).

Keep communicating with other mother and DD in a light way (I know it’s hard) but they are not your enemies, the real foe is this mother-hating ideology.

Has your DH texted your DD yet? He needs to open his communication channel too, if he doesn’t, he becomes the easy panto villain he wants x and family to be.

Thank you again mum and clog
DH has been texting DD - saying nice things and getting terse, if any, answers. Same here.

I got an abrubt text asking for something, I’m gobsmacked that she can be so rude.
im cross with myself, I should have gone out there and tried to get her to stay/ talk. She wouldn’t have been able to, I know. I’m a coward, I’m so scared of pushing her away. but I’m also not sure it would have achieved anything positive, suspect they would have sneaked off and demonised me/ justified themselves. I have lost the ability to make any decisions .

bro said the atmosphere isn’t great now, x is always lurking and he can’t get DD on her own. He says its getting creepy, and is now calling her ‘mili tant’ out of Viz. 😄 X is angry at thet everyone hates trans people and murders them. I’ve no words.

they are coming back today. Dh and I were planning different approaches, but he is now understanding why I say I’ll do something and then change my mind - like going out there - it’s so hard to know what to do. he’s understanding that we have to stay calm and loving or we are giving them the stereotype they need. A wise poster said DD needs to demonise me or him or her story falls apart.

i didn’t realise how much X is spouting this trans ideology. Also that DD has cut off her best friend from primary school for daring to say, not everyone is a transphobe and that X may be a bit co ercive.
x is now apparently giving up a Uni place and they will both apply to do hnc at same college. So that’s that hope gone.
she is now totally isolated apart from X and her mates.
l so want her away from this. She’s making her life so small, and we are all being controlled by x.
Dh suggests meeting them off the plane- but xs dad may be there, so that would not help. and saying,’we love you, you are always welcome, but here’s all your stuff’ Again, I think it will make it harder for her to leave.

i can ask the mum to send DD home, suspect she’ll say it’s up to her and X and she is happy they are there.

meanwhile I need to think of DS and Easter. Darling MIL disapproving of every idea. Amazing talent. Apparently SIL works very very hard to make sure HER daughter goes to exciting things. ‘ SIL in law is only in Coata Rica for her daughter’ 🙄so noble.
im feeling pretty useless.

Hi Moomoola - have you accidentally put your D’s name towards the end of that last post? You might want to ask Mumsnet to edit.
(Sorry - just a sympathetic lurker here, wishing you well but no insights or helpful advice to offer.)

Omg thank youshockhorror time for a coffee, am getting a bit bonkers.

This is so heart breaking. It reminds me of the lady in Australia whose son had a totally toxic girlfriend. She isolated him from friends amd family, was vile to him, and eventually dumped him.

She had to be so calm and measured, but everything she did was wrong.

In the end her son came round, but i think it too a long time and alot of patience.

Can anyone link to the thread?

Thank you grabbygabby we are definitely clutching at straws. We’ve both texted to say stay there! Have fun! Learn the lingo, go backpack if you’re not going to go to school.
she won’t though.

Wonder how x’s mum feels about x giving up her uni place. Now her life is starting to shrink too, and her mother might not be quite so positive about that…!

Let’s hope the voice of DD’s best friend from
primary school will be a seed in the back of her mind. Your DB has turned out to be an absolute blessing. He sounds a grounded and reasonable but liberal and open-minded person, so if he sees the toxicity of DF’s relationship with X everyone knows it must indeed be pretty bad.

I bet X has an instinct that she better get them out of there as soon as possible before DD, given confidence to be herself thanks to her uncle, starts making decisions that are out if her (X’s) control.

@Moomoola I'm sorry you're going through this, it sounds like a total nightmare. Reminds me of those documentaries from the 70s about parents having to kidnap their teenagers back from cults, and as a former person of gender still trying to get their partner back, you have my full sympathy. But there was something I noticed about your situation that wasn't related to the trans thing, and I hope you aren't offended by my saying so, but sometimes when kids grow up seeing one parent being overbearing to the other, it normalizes that behavior in a relationship. If one parent models needing an emotional support spouse and the other is running themselves ragged to provide that role, is it possible that DD met someone obviously very emotionally bad off and felt the same urge to nurture and protect that you feel towards DH?The pressure you feel from DH might be mirrored in what she feels from her girlfriend, but obviously from the other side of the argument. idk it's kinda what it feels like to me, like appeasement behavior on top of everything else. Doesn't give her an excuse to be a bitch to you in your limited communication, but something to keep in mind all the same- just, to take some of the good advice you're getting in therapy about your own marriage and thinking about how that knowledge could be applied to your relationship with your daughter, knowing, perhaps, a little of what's going on behind closed doors there.Just my two bad pennies on the situation.

I think that’s quite insightful. The DH’s earlier behaviour really came across as very controlling and angry (he seems to be realising it himself a bit, more recently).

Just dropping in to say Happy Mothers Day @Moomoola - the first one without your mam is always rough without a wayward daughter on top!

You could consider another casual chat with X’s mum re: convincing both teens to go to university but also, it’s ok if DD doesn’t go yet. Uni is always a future option and I actually think a majority of young adults would do well to go a little later (24/25 ish) when they’ve got the late teens pubbing and clubbing out of their system and have had a shit shelf stacking job or similar that makes their student loan feel less like Monopoly money.

Sorry but this made me chuckle. My wardrobe of baggy blokes jumpers would be perfect for this.

Hello, thank you.
bad budgeter this made me chuckle, and I’m glad it tickled you too. I think I already have the moustache, and blokes jumpers too! And the beer belly for that matter. Maybe we should all call ourselves Dave and Alan, and do tik tok. That’d confound ‘em!
Thanks clog you are infinitely wise and kind. Yes, I am happy for her to go later, i think she is a v young 17.
hag it’s wierd, the mum doesn’t seem to know what x is up to. X seems to rule the home.
scrolling I hope you are right re friend. yes Bro is super cool. But didn’t get chance to really chat. X didn’t leave DD alone at all apparantly.

thankyou redbird you are spot on I think. Counsellor said, ‘ she said she doesn’t like your relationship and says DH is overbearing and she’s run straight into a similar relationship’ this obviously is deeply unsettling as I feel guilty, question own choices, and very unsettled as DH was v angry at one Time.
dodopatrol I hope so. We had family therapy yesterday and they gently suggested they could see he was frustrated and cared very much but maybe he try not to fix everything but chill. I’m to speak up more.
Now though, it’s all gone a bit Pete tong.
I’d tried to call the mum and arrange a chat, but she wasn’t picking up. DH, took this, and the school contacting her, not us, plus he hasn’t seen her in 3 months, and unfortunately thought talking to the mum and telling her some home truths would cause a rift and get X and mum to kick DD out.🙄

i heard his side and he sounded calm and mentioned her drinking and his concerns that she left home so abruptly. Whaddya know but 5 mins later X calls me to say We must not damage her mums mental health. I’m afraid I was so gobsmacked ( and stressed from trying to think what to say and remember who is they/ him etc) that I laughed hollowly. I was gobsmacked because a ten minute call is not good for mums mental health..er..what about ours? I’m afraid I said, we’ve had 3 months of not good mental health. Of course we are now vilified and DD texted to say she was going to meet us, but now she needs time to recover from the mental stress of that convo so will call us in time.
im beginning to get so over this.
I sympathise with DH who is so stressed and upset. He is coming across as aggressive, it’s frustration and impotence. He can’t believe his precious DD can be so hard. He wants to tell her she is in a coercive relationship and to get out and gets cross when I say that won’t work. They are casting us as evil and the only way as I understand it from here and counsellor
s is to not be evil. He is frustrated as he’s said he’s been patient and tried that for 3 months and it hasn’t worked and it’s time we scared X and her mum. He is getting cross with me and is super stressed.

the good thing is bro, chum, and chums that heard Xs call to me are all gobsmacked at how old and in charge she is. Formidable. She said stuff like, ‘ let’s move forward and resolve this’ in that annoying calm voice bad counsellors have. Eww. Yet as soon as I think I’ve moved a step forward we are back 4.
DH now says,’go back to work then!’ And when I say ok, he says, ‘you’ll lose your DD. Apparently I should be on this full time and why does he have to do all the thinking. I can’t win!
.
thanks, sorry for the rant. Am getting a bit exhausted

No one should have to go through this.

I've no sage advice, as frankly I probably tell my DD that I love her, but she's behaving like a fucking brat.

As for the mother, I'd do EVERYTHING in my power to ruin her life. The grooming b*tch.

As I said, no sage advice .

ha, but very tempting! Your view will cheer up Dh no end. Thank you!

He’s getting very tired at tippy toeing around.
DD just says she needs time to get ready to approach us again if we put a foot wrong.
not at all sure this is coming from DD but may well be X. We now see how controlling she is. And possibly how weak the mum is.
As when DH phoned her, he was very calm but said ‘it’s time to send DD home, this is coercion, we are concerned’. She’d immediately called X who called me. And told me not to damage her mums mental health.
erm?
text from DD saying mum was scared, she and x were scared, she was terrified DH would arrive at the airport and yell.
I don’t know what Mum told X but wtaf?
so now We are back to DD needing time to get over all the emotion.
This so feels like it’s coming from X.

so what can we do?
DH says slow and love isn’t working, we are being played ( as is DD).
He would like to say,’we love you, and you always have a home, but here’s your stuff.’
he is hoping that will scare mum and DD and give her a dose of reality. I think it will make it harder for DD to leave and X will rub her hands with glee.
he is being portrayed as the pantomime villain. To a lesser degree I am too.
everything we say is filtered by X.
It’s awful. DH is taking it very hard which is hard for me, listening to his anxiety. We are arguing as I’m not convinced we can get her away and he thinks I’m taking the easy path. I don’t know.
i do know I’m downing far too much wine.
i want to take DS to see brother at Easter . It’s where DS asked to go, he definitely doesn’t want another hol here, bored and sad.
Concerned as 9 days seems v long. 11 days seems unfair. I cannot make any decisions at all, and meanwhile the flights are going up.
help!

I can't believe this is still going on for you @Moomoola.
You're seeing how X is ruling the roost in her home, but wonder if you can see how X and DD by extension are also ruling the roost in your home and aren't even there?
Everyone in your family have had their life turned upside down by X and DD and it seems everything you do or say still has to be contemplated with how dd would react or be affected by it.
At the beginning I honestly had high levels of sympathy for her, but I've really started to lose that now, and think she is just as manipulative and cruel as X and Xs mum.
The audacity to tell you you need to take this other woman's feelings in to consideration after all they've put you through?!

It's the constant "give me time, give me time" which is leaving you dangling, and the previous undercurrent of getting you to split with DH and all would then be fine. I now honestly think had you done so, there would then have been 'something else' as an issue and another herculean task to prove to her she's most important, however you would then have understandably be dealing with the fall out from a break up, and have been significantly vulnerable to any demands.
I think DH is right in this.
DH says slow and love isn’t working, we are being played ( as is DD).He would like to say,’we love you, and you always have a home, but here’s your stuff.’
I sadly think dd, x, x dm see you all as weak (sorry if this sounds horrible!) and they can do whatever they want and you will always be there on tenterhooks, doing whatever you are told.
Still wishing you all strength and a resolution soon.

While I agree that your DH has put a lot of the pressure on you, him saying, "it's time to come home. This is coercion" is spot on. It's stark reality. I'm beginning to wonder if your daughter almost wishes you would show up and force her to come back home. Not with violence or yelling but with a calm, united front saying, "you're coming home now."

They both have you dancing a merry tune. I wonder is it time to write some stuff down in a letter.

You will always love her unconditionally
She will always have a home with you. The door is always open.
You miss her terribly.

However
You feel her rx with X is not healthy bordering on coercive (give examples of why you think this - never being left alone, being isolated from friends and family etc)
You are worried about the choices she is making that will impact her future

And
How her behaviour and choices are impacting on you, how this feels for you (verging on cruel).

How you need to protect yourself a bit. Feel like you willbe accused of something no matter what you say or do. No win situation. So ball is in her court. If she wants a rx with you, she needs to build it. You will follow, but cant live on tenterhooks for ever.

Can someone link to the Australian thread where a girl manipulated a teenage boy for about a year? I can't remember enough details to find it but think it would be helpful for the OP to read. I seem to remember it is a few threads but if she just reads the OPs posts it shouldn't be too bad.