Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

DH talking about booking London and Eurostar to Paris for Easter, but can't tell me how much time he can take off.

You can't fix everything for everyone. You do need to look after yourself as well.

Can you make bookings for yourself and DS, and leave it up to DH to come along for whatever time he can? It might be even be less stressful for DH if you book separately. That gives him a timeframe he can work towards without having you and DS hanging on his workplace demands, so he can still be flexible if he needs to.

And book whichever trip suits you and DS best, Paris or your bro. Or even both!

Thanks mum you are lovely!
DH came home early with a full on rant about how we need to talk to the mum, tell DD that x isn’t giving anything up. I should have called DDs chum, the school.. I gave up work to get DD back etc etc. I should be thinking about it all the time like he is ( I am).
he’s really upset by DD. He’s upset because he was so keen to see her last week and then she cancelled and said she’d see us when she got back from brothers as she didn’t want to be stressed meeting us if we were going to say anything stressful. He’s fed up, as am I, that we are tip toeing around. He says being nice isn’t working, it’s time to call the mum and I’m not doing that because it’s hard, being nice to DD is easy.
He’s obviously exhausted and concerned. I keep telling him to relax, I don’t want DS to pick up on stress, and now he’s said I’m trying to tell him he’s the one at fault.
MIL against taking DS to see brother as there’s not much to do there. Thanks MIL!
and thanks again everyone for cool voices of reason. Appreciated more than you know!

Has your DH forgotten it was him who cancelled on her?

Sorry but you need to stop getting drawn into your husband's hysteria if you want to be a safe person for your daughter to turn to. At the moment it's clear you prioritise him over her.

Thanks beastly this was a few days later. DD agreed to see us then cancelled citing lack of trust, referring back to Xmas when she did a bunk and we tried to get her home. It didn’t sound like the language she’d use.

this ties in with Jeffrey marsh who says ‘if your parents get upset when you tell them you want to go no contact, well..it tells you something. If your parents say they will work on themselves well that tells you something.’
its in the link Kindly provided by jellycats on the previous page. It’s chilling. He cleverly lets the teenage brain fill in what it tells you - and doesn’t take into account that obviously parents will be emotional at such a bombshell, and maybe…it’s because they are actually shocked and are not transphobic ffs.

As you say, im trying to be cool calm and collected, and not get sucked into DH s wilder ideas. This thread is invaluable for calm advice so many many thanks to everyone who is taking the time to post.

beastly I don’t understand how it’s clear I’m prioritising DH over DD? I would like to know as I obviously want DD to know shes totally loved.

one more piec of advice needed! Sorry, I can’t think straight-
DH would like me to contact other mum and ask what are her plans, will she fund DD through college etc.
is that a good idea? It’s very odd that DD has been there since Xmas and apart from one polite meeting where she recommended the local equivalent of the Tavistock clinic and a text saying it’s nothing to do with her but it’s between x and DD, there’s been no contact between us.
It’s been hard not to phone and say, that’s enough now.

i think I’d have to tell DD I was doing this or it will be twisted I imagine.
should I tell DD and contact the mum?
DD says the mum is very happy for her to stay and won’t accept housekeeping money.
It’s nearly 3 months. DH has seen her once. I’ve seen her 3 or 4 times. She won’t come in the house or get in the car.
thanks.

He's forgotten that he cancelled first, I think. Or would rather not remember because he's feeling guilty about it.

As an adult, he did the right thing. For an angsty teenager, it's more proof that 'Dad cares about his work more than me.' Likewise, blowing up at X and X's mum will do nothing other than convince your daughter DH hates the 'real her' and won't let her be her 'authentic self'.

You all need a holiday - two weeks, if you can manage it. Blowing up like this is a sign that DH needs one just as desperately - between stress at work and home, he's heading for burn-out or something.

Book one for you and DS and then tell DH that you don't want him doing anything until you've all had a bit of time to decompress. Tell him you've booked a holiday for you and DS but you'd like him to join you whenever he can manage it.

Don't contact the other mother. She probably doesn't have any plans and it will look as though you are using money as a bargaining tool. Your husband will just have to be more patient. This isn't something he can control. He needs to just give things time. Him being an angry ranty person isn't helping anyone and he will drive you and his son away from him if he doesn't stop obsessing over things he can't control.

Thanks guys. I’m reading mn looking for answers instead of getting on!

anactor yes we do need a break. DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then. So yes, I’ll have to book something and yes, he will work till he’s ill, he’s done it before and gets cross if I point it out.

2rebecca thanks. My instinct is not to contact the mother, but I feel a pressure off DH to.
I am trying not to look at our relationship at the moment. 😳

DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then.

Can you go away without him? You can't make everything fit with his needs and DD's needs and DS's needs. Something has to give, and you and DS need the break.

If DH wont do proper self-care and take annual leave then you can't do it for him. You can't make him look after himself properly, just as you can't make DD come home. All you can do is try to muddle along and make sure everyone - especially you! - get your basic needs met.

My instinct is not to contact the mother, but I feel a pressure off DH to.

Your DH isn't showing patience or good judgment, not about taking a holiday, not about meeting DD, and not about contacting the Mum. I am sure he can come up woth a gazillion reasons why his way is the right way, but underlying it all is just blind panic and clutching at straws.

Your instincts are more reliable. Plus you have us for a reality check. But seriously who does he have? Just you really. So trust your own judgment (which is another word for instinct) and keep telling him no.

MIL against taking DS to see brother as there’s not much to do there. Thanks MIL!

Well, that's the last time you ask for her opinion, eh? Who cares if there's "much to do" or not? He's a teenage boy, getting them to "do" anything is like pulling teeth. Chances are he'll happily sit on the internet until you take him out for an icecream or - by the sound of things - until dbro asks him to join him doing whatever dbro does.

"DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then. So yes, I’ll have to book something,"
Yup. You and DS need a break just as much. I'd wonder if there's anything like a weekend break that DH could take before April 11, but if he's burying himself in work, he won't.

In the meantime, if he's admitted he's busy at work 'until April 11,' possibly push him to actually book a break after April 11 with work? Going away as a family with you and DS would be great, but he needs some time for himself.

"yes, he will work till he’s ill, he’s done it before and gets cross if I point it out."
From what you've said over this thread, I'm getting real 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going," vibes from your DH. And since this is one of those situations where there's no immediate solution at hand that can be solved by decisive action, he's really struggling.

Which makes it even more important you and DS take care of yourself. You might end up looking after him, too, when he makes himself ill.

Hi OP
Is DD even considering college at the moment with everything going on?
What happens if you contact other mum regarding college only to be told by DD she is planning to work and not thinking about college.
I think this isn't a question for other mum to be honest.
Sorry!

OP - you really have to tell your DH to pull his finger out. He must stop dumping all his expectations on you. And you must tell him that his work is interfering with your relationship and his relationship with both DCs.

And then book a holiday for you and DS that DH can come on or not.

Don't speak to X's mum, that's just a whole can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.

Remember the other mother has a vested interest in enabling your DD - it reminds her that she’s a good mum and she did the right thing (testosterone etc) for her own child. How she plans to fund your daughter long term is up to her.

I don’t think contacting her will do any good. It would just cement you and your husband as the bad guys, “suppressive people”, which seems to be your role in all this.

Thank you everyone.
DH bombarding me at 6 a.m ( don’t know how he does it, before coffee!) with ‘tell the mum this is no good for DDs future and it’s time to send DD home, also we know x was looking for help as you drink so much and hide bottles.’
He thinks that will encourage a split but like you say, not actually sure that will help. Maybe I can just call as a friendly check in to see if DD is ok, but that’s colluding. Maybe I just say she didn’t answer.

DH now wants me to leap on a plane. Or get bro to keep them there and miss their plane home.
bro is v funny - they are driving him nuts with entitlement and self centerdness.
Apparantly X threw a sulk after bros friend said, ’hello girls’. Bro was a bit pd off and said,’well tell him you’re a boy’ But x won’t because of course she’ll get abuse because the cis world hates trans. Bro a bit confused by the logic in this!
Of course, no one actually cares what she wants to be - but they’d prefer it if she was someone who’d say thank you occasionally . bros friend is apparantly now saying ‘hello boys, fancy a pint’ with a quietly naughty twinkle. 😀
bro has seen how DD is being obviously manipulated and will get her away fro an hour alone to tell her so. Whether she will be able to hear it - I don’t know. But top points to bro.
thank you everyone for your calm words again!

P.s. I really appreciate all your advice. Especially the bit about DH struggling as it’s out of control. It helps me view DH with a calmer more understanding eye so thank you.

My husband firing instructions at me as though I was his slave, especially early on a morning or late at night would just make me angry. It's definitely time for a " stop bossing me around and demanding I make stroppy phone calls. I'm happy to discuss the situation calmly but I'm fed up with you getting angry at me and trying to order me around on this issue"

It helps me view DH with a calmer more understanding eye so thank you.

who is viewing you with a calmer more understanding eye, though?

IME you should tell DH to stop bombarding you with instructions and take control of himself. Honestly, he makes my slapping hand itch. Good for your bro and bro's friend - although i assume that he will now be cut off as an "enemy" rather than ally.

Your husband is a huge part of the problem here. You need to stop running around after him. Your DD sees you doing this and it makes her feel she's not safe with you because he controls you.

How is it a concern that X manipulates your DD, but it's absolutely fine that your DH does it to you?

Tell him to wind his neck in, he is really not helping at all.

And don't contact the mum, it's still not appropriate for all the reasons previously given on here.

I'm so glad you're finding help here, and it is probably a great thing that your bro is seeing in real time what your DD's relationship is actually like. Be aware that he might not tell you much, he might have been sworn to secrecy by your DD as a condition of her visiting him.

Your brother sounds awesome.

Ah, Moomoola, good to hear your brother and his friend might be able to project a bit of normality (and even teasing) into this, presumably, very intense relationship. I hope he does manage to have a word with your dd alone.

I really think that you shouldn’t contact the other mother, as pp have said, she has facilitated her daughter taking a certain path, and she’s now committed to believing that was best for her dd, and by extension, for yours too. She will never be your ally, best not to give her anything she could use against you.

Sending best wishes and good luck - plus hopes that you can have a lovely holiday with your ds (& dh?). I’m sure you both/all need it!

Your bro sounds wonderful. It's really good for teens to realize that what the world sees them as can be quite different than what they want the world to see them as. Sulking cause the world sees you as a teen girl when you ARE a teen girl just shows how immature x is. Hopefully DD, in this different environment, can see it too.

I think it’s great that the two of them are with your DB - I hope they stay there for ages so you can get more observation reports!

Your DH needs to understand that the only person who can begin to fix the breakdown in the relationship between him and his daughter is him.

He can’t outsource it to you under the catch-all ‘wifework’ banner, it’s like his personal hygiene - only he can do it (all you can do is ensure there is toothpaste and shower gel in the bathroom ready for him to use).

As for the mother, I wouldn’t do anymore than a casual check in as to whether anything has changed since your previous contact (eg ‘Just checking in with you as I realise a whole extra person in the family home is quite a big change and I wouldn’t want you to think we’re taking you for granted nor that DD isn’t welcome to move home whenever she’s ready’) but no offers or enquiries about financials or future plans. If she says everything is fine say you will check in with her again in a month/2 months/before exams start whatever feels right to you and then stick to it.
Your aim should be no more than creating a communication channel, so that DD & X can’t exaggerate or invent problems without you and the Other Mother having an avenue to double check if anything escalates.
Also, OM needs to feel like she can simply send DD home if she’s had enough of an extra mouth to feed - none of us would feel able to do that if we truly thought the teen’s home environment was abusive or damaging. Phoning up and getting shirty will reinforce the false notion that DD is unsafe in the family home, whereas a calm and undemanding check in will demonstrate otherwise.
I would write a simple breezy text and I would immediately screenshot the text and send it to DD with a ‘Hey [pet name] I sent this check-in text to X’s mum, just letting you know. I love you, mum xx’

If DD protests you can say you value honesty and transparency between you and DD and thus wouldn’t communicate with X’s mum behind DD’s back but as a responsible parent you had to check that she still had a stable roof over her head.

Pretty much all of us have a natural inclination towards wanting to be seen as the good guys, who wouldn’t rather be The Fairy Godmother instead of The Wicked Stepmother?
If you give The Other Mother the benefit of the doubt and imagine that she is just trying to do the right thing for a kid who has been framed as vulnerable/misunderstood at home, then the way to approach her is by gentle, indirect reassurance that you are not The Wicked Stepmother and DD is more Dick Whittington (setting out on an adult adventure) than Cinderella (neglected and forced into slavery within the home)!

Teenagers paint everyone and everything with a massively unsubtle big brush with no nuance. Let some nuance back in (and tell DH he’s behaving in the same way as the teens by making the other family out to be pure panto villains when the truth is likely more complicated).

Is your family therapy coming up anytime soon? Your DH really needs someone outside of the family system to tell him to stop outsourcing to you and start communicating directly with his daughter. When did he last text her? Did he ever apologise to her for cancelling on her?

(I’m still pretty convinced her subsequent cancellation on him was a revenge response, although perhaps subconscious on her part).

OP you should print this out and stick it on the fridge for DH to read. Well maybe not on the fridge, but you should absolutely make sure he reads this.