Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Shouldn’t really have posted that. All a bit long and self indulgent!

You must be living your worst nightmare. I think many teens are going through this social contagion of thinking they are opposite sex. It is madness. I don't believe people can change sex. I think they can dress up as opposite sex but many look like drag queens with Adams apples. I'd be texting your dd that her home is waiting for her whenever she wants to come home. I'd not be calling her he or by a boys name as it would be hypocritical. Some people who go through this trans nonsense and later see sense are often critical of parents who called them opposite pronouns and opposite sex name as they say it added to normality of situation if even their parents in agreement. Keep stressing surgery and hormones will affect their whole lives.

Actually, you were very articulate.

My child is old enough to make his own decisions, however unwise or self destructive. All I can do is be there to support and care for DC, and to advise and to mitigate when DC allows me to. DC is a responsbile adult (well all right he's a bit bonkers too!)

Two images - one for you and one about your husband. What you are doing for DD is throwing out a lifeline to her, which she can grab or not. You can't make her grab it, you're just letting her know it's always there. If she swims away, you throw it again, just so it's always close enough to grab. So if she sinks she can always pull herself back up.

It might be a bit different for your DH. His relationship with DD sounds more difficult, he swings from absent to obsessed, and I guess there's a long history behind that. I think he needs to build a more solid foundation to his relationship with DD. He needs time with his DD, shared, positive. That's what you are already trying to build, but is he? That's the foundation under the building and without that he's not going to achieve anything. The trans stuff is only the roof of the building. Anything he tries to build without that foundation of enjoyable relaxed time spent together will collapse.

And you can't build his foundation for him. Either he does it himself, or it doesn't exist.

I realised that DH and I had let DS drift off from us. DS didn't run away he left home in the usual way of things, but he can be quite emotionally closed and we didn't make enough effort to visit him and keep contact. We only realised when he told us about the decision to transition. So we have to rebuild the connection. Yes DH and I are panicking like fuck about it, and yes it's a strain on our
relationship (I'm GC, DH is more .... um trans positive ... though he's equally horrifed about DS(!)) We are both trying to strengthen the foundations of our relationship with DS, and keep our lifeline out. And apart from the closeness itself, another payoff so far is that DS is seriously considering an important mitigation that we've advised. It wont stop his transition but might at least maintain his fertility.

he says we are being too passive and being loving to DD isn’t working.

Then DH is being impatient and rather foolish. What doe he think "working" would like? DD coming home with her tail between her legs? And is that at all realistic?

It's natural to feel adrift and miserable. We're in uncharted waters. You said you were seeing a counsellor yourself? If you are, then keep going, it's good to have someone who's there just for you. And honestly - you're doing a great job.

DH suggests dumping all our daughters stuff at their flat, to scare the mum ( it’s small) and scare DD. Maybe?

No, I wouldn't. Because how would DD interpret that? "Fuck off then, and live with these people"? Just because DH is upseet and angry, he doesn't get to lash out at DD.

The last thing on earth you want to do is scare DD. She's scared enough already. Her behaviour screams "anxiety" to me. She needs to see home and parents as safe, loving, accepting, calm. Yes I know we have to fake the "calm" bit but that's why a counsellor is great, I don't have one at the moment but in the past I've used counselling as a safe place to fall apart, rage, vent, grieve, say horrible things, knowing it wont hurt anyone else. And came through to find a way forward that helped me and my family.

Honestly, you have a DH problem. It's good he's agreed to go to family therapy but it sounds like he's got a lot of work to do on himself. He sounds quite abusive, tbh.

Maybe go without DS to the first session so that you can tell him what to expect if he comes with you to the next one.

Your husband isn't accepting his daughter is now 17. He doesn't get to make her decisions for her any more. My son (Scotland) was at university age 17. Your husband sounds a self obsessed pain in the bum. You need to keep the door open for your daughter to return. Rejecting her because she makes poor decisions won't help. Focus more on your son and the stuff you can control. Does your husband have any good qualities?

Dumping DD’s stuff sounds like a stupid idea to me - remember the push and pull aspects from my posts upthread (new name!) - you’d literally be pushing her into the arms of the other family and giving her no reason to come home (even just coming back to collect bits here and there keeps that invisible thread between home and DD intact).

A gender distressed child (of any age) can destroy a marriage so a) you are not alone in feeling the pressures and b) your husband needs to sort his own shit out.

Big question and not one you need to answer to us, but - do you think it’s possible that your DD has left because of negative undercurrents in her relationship with dad? I think there can be some quite complex things in the father-daughter relationship that mums cannot stage-manage away no matter how hard we try. There doesn’t have to be actual abuse for the relationship to be complex, btw.

I think one of the parents on the LGBT children section might be a dad of a natal daughter - will investigate and see if I’m right and if so, if he has any possible insights or resources that your husband can investigate.

There are dads in the gender skeptical parent groups but the vast majority of members are mothers - I expect that’s the same across parental support groups for all sorts of paediatric and adolescent disorders though (most of my kiddy cancer/hospital parent friends are mums).
Of course, that’s at least partly to do with much bigger societal issues around household labour & paid work so an observation rather than a criticism.

Once upon a time dads expected to hand their daughter over to a pre-vetted young man who had to ask dad’s permission to marry her. There was a literal responsibility contract signed - from Miss to Mrs.
Obvs very few people want to return to the days of women as property of men, at least not rationally, intellectually… but emotionally I suspect there are quite a number of dads who really do struggle with the loss of any say over their daughter’s decision making and autonomy.

(it’s hard for mums too, but we tend to react with worry and internalised blame rather than anger or pushing a DD further away).

your husband needs to wind his neck in a bit - either he’s handed this job to you, in which case he needs to respect your decision making and back you up, or he needs to stop running away and take on more of the emotional labour/research and engagement with other parents & professionals.
He can’t give you all the work and then complain about what you are doing - you aren’t his employee, you are your DC’s mum.

Re: not just staying home and self isolating - I expect you’d be surprised at how many in your friend networks are either going through similar or know other parents who are.
My best friend is a childless man in his early 50s and he’s started to notice loads of his same age friends suddenly talking of NB or transman teens instead of daughters - the sheer numbers in this age group don’t make any sense.

(I think my DD might be the school
year below yours? Mine is current year 12 - there is a big ol’ spike in her cohort that drops away afterwards. Does your DS go to the same school as DD? If so, what does he observe? Perhaps you could talk about the phenomenon without directly talking about your DD)

Oh, and forcing a teen to help with a chore with a promised treat after can be a way to coax them from a bedroom - got any wallpaper to strip? Or maybe some pruning/tidying in the yard? A big pizza as the prize (eat in the restaurant to avoid the box being snaffled away to eat in front of a computer screen).

FWIW I think you are coping admirably and I wish your DH would stop eating into your self confidence and trust your judgement better. Does he do similar to DD?

Are the other family financially supporting your DD? Covering electricity, food etc ...? Are they well off?

Brilliant post from @CryptoFascistMadameCholet

MumOfYoungTransAdult · Today 09:51
DS is seriously considering an important mitigation that we've advised. It wont stop his transition but might at least maintain his fertility.

That is interesting, and well done for having managed to get him to listen. Would you be willing to say what it was you advised?

@Moomoola Your DH sounds like he is panicking and trying to force a reaction from your DD. Dumping her stuff would be one of the worst things you could do, the other girl and her parents would see that as evidence you don’t care. I can’t imagine the stress you and DH are going through. Can the 3 of you take a proper holiday at Easter? Go somewhere hot where there will be lots for your DS to do?

Don’t beat yourself up about not taking DS somewhere, you sound so overwhelmed and you are going through a very traumatic time. It’s very hard to get anything else done when your DD’s behavior is so disruptive and putting you in a state of limbo.

Is there anyway you could go to your brother’s on your own for a weekend just to talk to him and get some emotion out away from the family? This experience is horrendous and please don’t beat yourself up when your whole family is in a new country without a map.

Do you listen to “Gender the Wider Lens”? Maybe you are sick to death of gender bollox but your husband in particular might benefit from listening because their stance is therapeutic and therefore calm and rational and not in the polarizing place that most of us find ourselves because of this ideology. genspect.org/widerlens/

@ScrollingLeaves Sure - he's applying for sperm freezing through a fertility clinic. The NHS will even pay though I'm not sure if that's the same everywhere . He had to go through several hours of watching information videos and signing consent forms, and the clinic also has to agree he'd be a suitable parent in future. Fertility treatment seems to be very tightly regulated - contrast to gender affirming care

I expect it's less straightforward for girls. And it may not be that simple for DS either because he is already taking hormones, but fingers crossed.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · Today 14:57
🤞

@Moomoola episode on the Parent’s experience

Not at all! I've been watching this thread and thinking of you and your family. I know it's anonymous here, but we care and are wishing you well and want to be supportive. Very happy you shared and I hope it helps.

I have 2 DDs similar ages and i know that deep mother ache when you worry for them and when things aren't going well for them. You love the little wins and good times and dread the worry when things seem to turn.

I agree with PP that throwing out her stuff is the worst idea. You need to be the refuge she can always come back to.

I can't help but think that your dh is part of the problem here. Has he done any of the reading and research you have? All of his suggestions seem to be quite extreme and angry not to mention that they also seem like they'd push your dd further away.
I totally understand he's stressed but he's taking it out in you while not making the situation any better, if you could work together you'd be better and also create a happier place for your ds

if you could work together you'd be better and also create a happier place for your ds

@balzamico makes a very good point. And "working together" is an important goal for family therapy and I wouldn't let DH wriggle out of it. Yes he's busy at work but what is he so busy for? For himself? Or to support his family who are having a crisis and need something apart from money from him right now?

Thank you everyone. I need to get a move on, but am Reading and digesting, your kind and thoughtful posts, thank you.
banter am listening to that podcast it’s extremely useful, clear and articulate, thank you very much indeed.
and sending massive hugs to all.
I am so sorry mum that’s so massive for you all.
this Is all so insane.

Thank you everyone, you have all made such good comments.
Thanks for the tips re son, to bribe him with cake! Paranoid android is right. We didn’t get to go away. I currently have a mental block about arranging anything. I seem to have lost all confidence and identity.
balzamico DH is reading, but more about the ideology, I’m reading more the emotional side.

scratched the other family is paying, no, they don’t appear to be well off. DD says the mum won’t accept housekeeping off her.

.beastly, crypto,mum etc It seems you’re right, I have just talked to DD and she has said that part of the reason she left is DH. She feels he is controlling. For reasons you have all picked up on - blimey!
She had a good chat with my brother who concurred that he’s never liked DH. He has told me that before, and brother has issues himself, so lots to unwind there.
I’m so glad she told me- but obviously am a bit shell shocked.
should have guessed. Sure I’m not perfect too.
!

Have hopped over to relationships as am not sure this is in the right space any more, but who knows!
thank you.

Talk about it anywhere that feels right - have this thread moved if you like, or post the link go the new one here if you want us to come over there.

We’re all rooting for you - hopefully the family counsellor can get through to your DH and help him to understand and adjust his own behaviour.
In the meantime, it’s great that you’ve got that avenue of communications open.
I would imagine most 17 year olds feel like their dad is either too controlling or too disinterested- sometimes both in one package. Let your DD know that you know your future role is a supportive one rather than a dictating one - get her to think back to learning to ride a bike - she’s pedalling like mad but it’s not quite time for mum & dad to let go of the back of the saddle yet, and of course you are worried that if you let go before she’s ready she’ll fall down and get hurt.
Tell her that you know that soon she’ll be off cycling far faster than you can run, but if you both keep communicating you are far more likely to let go at the right moment, rather than too soon, if not soon enough.

Thank you so much crypto massively appreciated.
here’s the link
www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4748589-dd-17-doesn-like-her-dad?reply=124141053
but I may tippy toe back here, there seems to suddenly be a lot of attacking DH. Which isn’t really the point. He can be an idiot and he can be lovely. Mostly he’s stressed about holding down a massively difficult job while lots of youngsters jostle for position.
im perfect of course!
In new news, she’s agreed to meet tomorrow and I am even allowed to wave at x, who will be working in a shop.
Blimey! massive Progress!
DH wants me to ask her if she’ll go out with us and DS. Don’t know how to tell him she’s not keen. Don’t know how to ask her without it sounding like we are pushing.
Baby steps I guess.
thanks for listening!

I'm so happy DD is willing to meet you!

As to DH, you're right, no one is perfect and I don't know for sure how his behavior impacts your DD but I do know that sometimes teens exaggerate their parents reactions but also parents can have blind spots. The best you can do is keep telling your DD you love her and miss her. Again, it's the gender ideology that's harms families. 20 years ago your daughter might have struggled as a lot a young people always have but she'd not have the risk of irreversible hormone and surgical damage.

Also, just watched Affirmation Generation- a new film about ROGD kids. Lots of insights from detransisters that I think will help you understand what her mind might be going through. Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad have long segments with lots of professional advice.

affirmationgenerationmovie.com/
link to film!
thank you so much delphinium I suspect we are all at fault, a family is a system after all, and we all spin around each other. I hope I didn’t put my foot in it, I listened, agreed dad can be an idiot and I’m not perfect, said I had thought about divorce at one stage.
I hope I didn’t say too much, but thought it better to be honest rather than the platitudes my mum would say which just made me not trust her.
blimey!

Great update!