Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Thanks bez we cross posted.
I agree, my daughter is my daughter, she can never be my son. Like she can never be my chicken, even if she sticks feathers on, and I can never be Nicole Kidman - though I know I am, I was just born in the wrong body!

The OPs daughter is questioning her gender identity. This is a common enough thing for a young female to do when presented with the giant ball of fucking terrible that comprises gender stereotypes and sex-based oppression.
yup. This with knobs on. 😂
in the eighties everyone just wore eyeliner and got in with it. It seems now there’s a need to create a battlefield where there wasn’t one.
meanwhile away from the mirror, there’s pollution of the planet..poverty..there’s a lot better stuff to spend energy and passion on.

@Moomoola sounds like you have your head well screwed on! Families are complicated and you're doing an amazing job looking after yours. Keep taking care of yourself too.

I use my child's chosen name and pronouns too, not because I believe I have a DD, but because that's where we are and my child needs me. There isn't a single right or wrong path, we're all making it up as we go along. And trying to do what's best for our families.

@moomoola respecting your child’s pronouns and calling them by the name they wish to be known and taking discussions of transgender issues off the table will go a long way to reconciling you -that was my point.

They are the only person who knows their gender identity, and there are plenty of gender non-conforming non-trans people.

Thanks mum and back at you.
it’s a lot to suddenly learn to navigate

Thanks dadjoke I realise that, I’m just a bit…nnngggg stressed. Like mum i am calling her them and new name. I think some of this is fine, but the extreme views are concerning and so are the irresponsible idiots on social.
sorry to vent!
also I still don’t get how you can be gender non conforming? Isn’t that just being normal? How do you define gender? I’m genuinely curious as I really don’t know. I don’t feel particularly like a woman, I’ve no idea what that is supposed to feel like. Nor do I feel like any gender particularly - I’ve only got inside my head as a guide.
sorry, I’m derailing my own thread!

Respect is important.

But so are YOU.

You do not owe it to anyone, including your child, to agree with them on something that you believe is hurting them.

Respect yourself enough to hold tight to what matters most.

Small details don't matter. Some choose to use names and pronouns in order to protect the relationship. Others are able to avoid that by using pet names and weird language constructions.

But don't let anyone ever tell you that this is the exact same as if your child was telling your she is same sex attracted. That's nonsense.

P.s. it was a very good point. Thank you.

@moomoola respecting your child’s pronouns and calling them by the name they wish to be known and taking discussions of transgender issues off the table will go a long way to reconciling you -that was my point.

Really great to know your DD is contacting you of her own free will, I would just keep doing what you are doing in-terms of keeping your relationship alive and staying away from anything controversial. Don’t give her (or her GF) an excuse to cut you off. No matter what she says, she DOES love you, and she does need you. She is a deep hole of misinformation so going to see you through a strange lens rn. Just reaching out in gentle, cheerful ways seems successful.

Sorry to hear about DS. If it would be best to do things without your DH rn to keep your relationship with him alive do it.

What are you doing for yourself? Do you have any friends you can talk to?

They are the only person who knows their gender identity

I'm glad someone does. Nobody has yet managed to explain 'gender identity' to me in a way that makes much sense.

Banter's point above is excellent, OP. Be sure to look after yourself and make sure you have outlets and support.

@Moomoola you might like to ask dd if she is watching Physical 100 won Netflix where 100 incredibly athletic people from S Korea compete to find the best all-round kind of physique. It has about 25% to 1/3 women. What I like is the huge range of different backgrounds, body types, sports, athletic abilities etc. the 100 have. The women are from Special Forces, Weight Training, Bodybuilding, Wrestling, X-Fit etc. etc backgrounds and as opposite as “girly-girl” as you can get. In the first round of 50, a woman came third! And 2nd place was a male gymnastic Olympic gold medalist. It shows how much the mental game is also so important, the sheer will and blooodymindedness to take your body to its limits. But it’s also undeniably BIOLOGICAL. The bodies and their abilities are amazing. And there are some monstrously huge men that even the biggest and strongest women cannot come close to to in sheer bulk and size. It’s very entertaining. My 16 son is enjoying it as much as all of us.

Even if the 3 of you at home watch it I think you will likely really enjoy it. They also are diverse in age from a High School Ju-Jitsu national champion up to people who look like they must be at least in their 40s.

movieweb.com/physical-100-netflix-must-watch/

P.S. I would say how much you are enjoying it but otherwise “no comment” as the visuals will be powerfully telling a story about biological abilities and limitations.

Ooh thanks banter she loves anything South Korean. She’ll love this I’m sure. Maybe ds will!
When we first went to buy her boys clothes she told me she wanted a physique like a bloke form BTS (very androgynous)I pointed out the blokes in the park ( not quite the same look) as how the bts lot were chosen for looks etc and very rare. Brother said if she wants to be a bloke he’d stuff a pillow up her jumper then take her to the footy for a beer and a fart.😀

thanks banter and arabella for the support.
Sorry, but you’re all my outlet! I have a very good friend whose feminist and up on all this stuff and is amazing. Others just don’t get it, or have been stonewalled ( teacher). It’s a surprisingly lonely place to be without feminist friend. If you are reading this, 🥂
live joined GDSN support which was set up by an amazing woman. Hoping that will be good.

I think I’ve screwed up re DS. my brother is visiting the same city that DD and X are in at the mo. it was my plan to take DD and DSbefore all this kicked off.
they are meeting my brother so that’s brilliant. But obviously it seemed too wierd to be following her with DS. So then my mind went blank.

he’s out with mates today, thank goodness, He does get bored on computer (with mates)but obviously all my suggestions are more boring!
My mind just goes blank about where to go. I think because DS just says, why would we go there? Then I sort of deflate. I think I need to be a lot more decisive. Or something.
He didn’t like the riding idea, unfortunately. But thanks!
sorry for the ramble. Going to edit it but realised the time! Ulp!
thanks.

Flowers @Moomoola you're doing your very best and that's all you can do. Be kind to yourself.

Thank you so much bez it just feels like my family is unraveling before my eyes.

But worse things happen, so 👍

My mind just goes blank about where to go. I think because DS just says, why would we go there?

I have found "I'd enjoy spending some time with you" quite an effective answer Followed by "let's give it a shot, I bet they have cake". Just make a random decision where to go and tell him, it's fine. Even if he grumbles it's still OK. Think Marvin the Paranoid Android - "Don't try to engage my enthusiasm because I haven't got one".

As for the visit to your brother - you aren't following DD. You're taking DS to see your bro as planned. Whatever DD does, is up to her.

Followed by "let's give it a shot, I bet they have cake". Think Marvin the Paranoid Android - "Don't try to engage my enthusiasm because I haven't got one".

Oh god, I've just realised this is my technique for getting DP to do anything.

Good thing I quite like cake.

Brother said if she wants to be a bloke he’d stuff a pillow up her jumper then take her to the footy for a beer and a fart.😀

I must say DS sounds very amusing and witty.

Would it be too late, or wrong, to text DD to say you and DS are just going to visit your brother but won’t interfere with her and X / unless she wants to meet up.

Thanks all, you’ve cheered me up!
Brother is lovely and enjoyably inappropriate- he tried to get them into various trendy bars, so they were thrilled.
im so glad she saw him.
That was a great idea scrolling. I’m just so indecisive. The smallest thing becomes a massive barrier. I never used to be like this. What’s happened!

🧁🍰🧁🍰🧁

Sorry I muddled your brother with DS your DD’s brother.

@Moomoola if your dd is into Korean pop culture, she may be interested to see a famous Korean dancer who was on Single’s Inferno & went viral with a one-on-one dance with a famous KPop female singer (My dd explained this all to me, can’t remember his name or her name). But he wins rounds due to sheer physical strength as well as speed , flexibility etc. So if she is trying to model herself on the androgynous kpop stars, they are extremely talented physically and have tremendous physical stamina (often passing auditions at 14/15 and then intensively training for years before being launched). It’s a highly, highly competitive and stressful world. They sign contracts where they aren’t allowed to date etc too.
I think the male kpop stars that are groomed and manufactured for a teen girl market worldwide have and project an unthreatening masculinity. This Phsyical 100 show has a range of very different male body types, wiry, slim to very muscular but they are NOTHING like the “transman” aesthetic which is a very chronically online phenomenon of a romanticized, very young male, often twinkish masculinity that doesn’t last with age.

If it wasn’t clear, this famous dancer is one of the competitors on the show. She is bound to recognize him. It’s also good for her to see that “Korean man” is an extremely diverse category, not just the carefully developed and chosen androgynous KPop Star.

Thanks banter! Have just got the telly to myself and the quality street out. Watching now 😃😃

Woh, am off to the gym! They are so supportive of each other. It's nice.

the show was fun banter I’m sure DD will like it.

I asked if she needed a lift but of course the other dad collected them from the airport ( and took them). I’m not going to get her back am I.
HOW do I fight them?

DH has agreed to go to family therapy (!) even though he has work pressure so am impressed. Do need to ask DS or ‘it’s not family therapy’ as they said.
is that the right thing to do ? You suggested ask him, not sure how to present it.

Another crap half term, Nearly over. I just couldn’t make a decision to take DS to the same big city. I think because it’s all too unknown/ massive effort, but now I’m feeling gutted with myself, and gutted for son who is very quiet and stoic. He actually went out with mates and DH said,’oh you went there, it’s rubbish’ I could have kicked him!

it would have been lovely to see brother and mates. Wasn’t sure of brothers plans, wasn’t sure if I could foist myself and DS on mates at short notice ( no one has much room) DH didn’t want me phoning any of his mates for same reason.I don’t like this apathetic person that I’ve become.

DH is hoping that after the excitement of the trip DD will feel a bit blue.

He asks every night what I’ve done that day, why haven’t I called mum, dumped DDs stuff round there, called DDs best friend etc etc . I don’t know! I’m not sure if that’s the right thing to do, or not do.
DH suggests dumping all our daughters stuff at their flat, to scare the mum ( it’s small) and scare DD. Maybe?
he says we are being too passive and being loving to DD isn’t working.

DD sent me a text to say she’d met brother, DH said not to answer - we are being too accepting.

and even with your kind support, I feel like I’m losing her and am terrified of losing DS. And DH for that matter, we are not really getting on.

I’m looking to plan something for Easter. I’m competing for DD!
if you’ve read this waffle, thank you for your patience! Just feeling a bit adrift. ( bloody miserable).
Thanks.