Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

Hi, What heart wrenching posts. Im so sorry for everyone who has lost mothers. To lose your mum as a young girl, well, that’s awful, beyond awful. Im so sorry.
Please no apologies for derailing ( you are all adding to) the thread - it’s so wonderful to be able to share and enlarge on all our lived experiences. Im just sorry they are so crap. I think women are amazingly strong. We create new humans ffs. How did that ever get belittled?

dd was 10/11 when she saw me whisked away in ambulances and not know when I’d return, then dad had a massive op. I was advised to take kids to see him in case it was goodbye, but didn’t want them to see the ward ( terrifying) I don’t know if that was right. But after reading your stories this will have had a massive effect I imagine.
love to you all.

What a heart warming yet sad thread this is. Thank you all for sharing thoughts and stories. Love this from from @CamilleRose :

This ideology is tearing at the unconscious fabric between daughters and their mothers. Mothers have been demonized and daughters are encouraged to reject them as the creator of their past “dead name” life that they want to escape. When of course, most of this pain is the internal struggle to become an adult and understand themselves that we all have to navigate.

Totally agree, beautifully put.

Powerful interview with a mother who transitioned her son under 5 and realized he wasn’t trans when their second son (who was not gender non conforming - whatever the hell that means! ) also told them he was a girl at 3. She was deep, deep into Gender Ideology as it aligned so much with all her other SJW beliefs and in fact sprang from them, so she saw it as positive activism on her part. I hate how trans ideology is a toxic cancer that smothers any other genuine movement (feminism, LGB rights, against racism, class analysis etc etc) that it force-teams with.

Thank you camille completely incredible video on so many levels. Needs a lot of digesting!
I think somewhere in Abigail schrier she mentions how the current child led thinking is a misinterpretation. Will check it out tomorrow.
shocked to see smiley young girls with ‘kill terf’ type placards. What happened to being inclusive?

we have had a break through of sorts- I managed to call dd while she was on her own in the mums flat feeling bored and told her I’d pick her up..and we met! She backs away from anything other than light chat, as you guys said, But she actually got in the car. She was charming and excited to go to the concert. She is borrowing money off x. the texting got more frequent on the way home and she legged it as soon as I parked. I’m not allowed to see the flat ffs.
Dh thinks she was being summoned back.

Dh and I saw a family therapist. It’s the same set up that the school got DD into. DD sees a different ( lgbt therapist, worryingly) but that’s why I wanted to see them. shouldn’t we all be working together somehow?
Poor old Dh got so caught up in trying to justify his concerns without sounding rude about the ideology. the therapist empathised ( obviously) and gently tried to tell him to call dd her new name in order to keep communication. Other than that we just told the story.
DD letter was from CAHMS also she’s seeing them as well for 8 weeks.
We didn’t take DS as pps wisely suggested, but they said it would be better and it can’t harm. I think DS might see it as an invasion. And he hates to miss school. He doesn’t do talking about emotions. I’m not sure how he’d respond to the dynamic. And I’m not sure how I hold whatever he uncovers or thinks afterwards.
its and hour then 2 weeks between. Also it’s a borrowed room which is very ‘office’ and impersonal which surprised me. Felt like I was meeting the headmaster.
Im not an expert, but I would have thought with a 15 year old you’d need a gentler approach, maybe shorter sessions more frequently to build up some sort of trust. Aand a softer environment. I’m not happy with DS left hanging for 2 weeks without support - what if they uncover something traumatic? But I guess it’s a council run thing.
Any experiences on family therapy very welcome!

Have given up work for a couple of months as DH so tired and stressed and has a lot on. He’s booked to 180% of his capacity. Obviously insane and stressful. Actually relieved, I can catch up with everything here.

sorry for the ramble! Thanks so much for being incredible voices of reason, and sharing your stories. I hope this conversation is as useful to others as it is to me. Thank you .

The mother in the video “Rose” mentions a book on bonding which she highly recommends. I am sure you know how to bond with your daughter but it might still be useful because it sounds like it helps us understand HOW bond ng happens and they may be a lot of unconscious stuff.

I really don’t know if your son needs therapy right now, I think he needs his parents and as much normality as you can muster. Instead of therapy I would go out to see a film or go bowling or something.

I'm so happy you spent time with your daughter!

Another one so pleased that you spent time with her.
Re the therapy, maybe just ask DS to try 1 session? Suggest he gives it a go with an open mind but promise that he won't be forced to go again if he doesn't want to? Point out that he will see things from a different perspective and that could help the therapist as well as you to hear what he thinks / sees?

Lovely to hear you are maintaining a relationshp and contact. This is hugely important, you're doing great. She knows you are there for her, OP. That really, really matters, even if she doesn't tell you so overtly.

Amazing! Such positive news! Just keep plugging away at the light, fun, contact. Don’t let anyone paint you as the villain.

If it were me I would perhaps invite DS to the sessions and make it clear it’s an invitation, that you are inviting him because he is important in family and thus shouldn’t be shut out of any family activity.
I would also make it clear that you have no expectation for him to accept that invitation and that you trust him to decide his own priority re: not missing school and re: whether this is something he is interested in participating in.
Also that if he does attend once, there is no obligation for him to go again.

I agree with others re: making a fuss of him and a cinema trip or similar shared activity likely being more valuable than attending family therapy.
It might be that as you go to more sessions you come up with some topics or questions you can ask DS about yourself and then bring up at the sessions.

My DH has always found long car journeys a good time to talk to a teen - you are close together, in a private space, but not looking directly at each other. No one can leave the ‘room’ until the destination is reached but it’s an absolutely fine environment for just sitting together without having to constantly converse.
Plus you can put some fave snacks in the glove compartment and let your teen choose the in car music, which gives you an in-road to asking about music/podcasts they like etc.

Once upon a time this stuff was obvious because teens played their music on turntable or CD players and everyone could hear. Nowadays they are often plugged into a device via headphones, separating them from full integration with family life.

Re: the name, you could offer a compromise with an initial (or a combo of old and new initials, if that gives a name-like result, eg AJ) or a gender neutral nickname based on old or new name. See if you can find a way to meet in the middle before going all the way to new name, but probe gently.

You could try a good cop/bad cop variation, something more along the lines of ‘understanding cop/bewildered cop’ where you ask gentle questions using the ruse ‘can you help to understand [thing] better so that I can explain it to dad? He’s so sad and confused and I don’t know what to say to him’

I don’t think you are quite at the right time to try that yet, but keep it in your back pocket!

Oh, and ask her to send photos from the concert!

I’m pleased for you OP! Good luck.

@NitroNine - your post is probably the most moving and profound thing I have ever had the privilege to read on Mumsnet.
I have made a vow to myself to be present for girls and young women experiencing motherloss. I’m going to look into relevant charities and find out how I can help effectively, even if that’s just in fundraising.

My daughter is off to secondary in September and our first choice school actually has onsite regular group therapy session for bereaved pupils, which I can now see must make a welcome difference in combatting the utter loneliness that folds in with childhood grief.

Thank you for sharing with us.
There are no adequate words for me to type in response

💐💐💐

Thanks camille I’ll watch it again and write the title here. Thanks delphinium that’s very kind of you x
mrs Overton and shirewife I’ll ask him I guess. I think we are obviously in need of sorting out as the family therapist was v keen we come back. DH not keen as he has loads of work on etc.
DS is very quiet and hides in computer land. Who wouldn’t when you can parachute from a building instead of talking to yer old mum. We do have nice, silly chats at bed time. But he backs off any personal questions, even the who does he hang out with at break sort of question. ( worryingly!)
the car is a good idea, and yes, it’s horrible how everyone is getting isolated with their own headphones and video screens.
apparantly the happiest people are communities that look out for each other. Duh.
I’ll ask for photos - she did actually offer!! and..stop press! I got a bit of gossip texted to me today!
yaaaay! So relieved. I really hope it’s not just cos she needs money.
DH is exhausted and talks about it on waking..and as soon as he comes in. Its disloyal, but I’m finding him exhausting.

I haven’t had the head space to book anything for DS at half term. May just have to shut my eyes and pay horrendous train fair somewhere.

saw another horrendous tik tok of utterly vile man with make up saying he coaches trans kids to leave home. he says,’if you’re unsure, or feel it’s not right, don’t worry! Give yourself time and move out in a few months’

Wtf why do that?

love and thanks to everyone.

P.s that’s a lovely idea shirewife

DH is exhausted and talks about it on waking..and as soon as he comes in. Its disloyal, but I’m finding him exhausting.

I think this is a normal reaction for you - of course your DH is exhausting...he's feeling out of control. Gender ideology is doing this to your family. It's not your, your DH or your DD's faults. And that TikToker is a disgrace.

@Moomoola Jeffrey Marsh? Even with the sound off he gives me the creeps. There's something about the body language that sets off my "fight or flight" instinct.

Oh gosh, dunbie just looked at his website - he’s the most amazingly incredible best selling, amazing unique etc etc etc etc. in the history of the planet. Thank goodness he’s here! And he is one creepy narcissistic opportunist for sure.
A TV interviewEr said,’oh man’ and was corrected. We have to say,’oh person’.

I need a coffee. Is it too early for gin?!

Thank you delphinium for pointing that out. I needed reminding. we are trying to be compassionate to each other but obviously this is having an effect. DH now so knackered he goes to bed at 7 to watch rubbish films and try to sleep.

I never understood why men didn’t wear make up. Most of them are pretty ropey looking. But this weaponising ..

It's not generally good for sleep to watch TV in bed. He'd be better watching a film then going to bed. He's sounding a bit controlling in this in making it be all about him and his suffering and if his daughter won't do things his way he'll disengage from the rest of the family. He's behaving like another child.

I haven’t watched this (!) but it has two well qualified therapists talking about potential and actual Parental Estrangement. I imagine you know Stella O’Malley from “Gender: A Wider Lens” podcast.

CamilleRose · Today 17:57
I haven’t watched this (!) but it has two well qualified therapists talking about potential and actual Parental Estrangement. I imagine you know Stella O’Malley from “Gender: A Wider Lens” podcast.

Thank you, how interesting and helpful that is.

Thank you camillerose this is brilliant. It feels like a tentative map through the wilderness. The more I learn, the more immense it seems.
there’s one lady whose daughter hasn’t contacted her for three years.
😳

Dd sent a text about their visit. Am ridiculously optimistic when I get a text and devastated when I don’t. I really really hope she is seeing me as a loving supporter.

I don’t know, my mum was always supportive to the point of saying, ‘don’t worry no need to visit, it’s too hot/cold/busy/expensive.’ I wish she’d been a bit more honest and said ,’it is hot/cols whatever, but I’d love to see you’
im so well behaved I didn’t challenge her and go anyway, though I longed to. I’m an idiot.

I feel you!! I have DDs. I'm sure she loves you - I hope you can connect again soon. Maybe suggest a fun outing - even simple like visiting a favorite store

Good idea! Am desperately looking for somewhere to take DS too. I’ve got such a blank brain!