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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transmaxxing

370 replies

pattihews · 07/01/2023 15:48

Article in Unherd by Mary Harrington about 'transmaxxing', a phenomenon in which young men transition because they can, not because they have dysphoria but in some vague hope of having sex with sympathetic women.

It's reminded me of Ollie London, who assumed that just because you can do something (in his case have surgery to make him look Korean) it's okay. No ideological awareness, no ethics, just a why not? kind of attitude.

unherd.com/thepost/why-are-incels-turning-themselves-into-girls/

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Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 07:10

Gender-critical thinking is no less an ideology than queer theory. The most ardent supporters of both are never going to meet in the middle. In the meantime, more tolerant and practical people will develop solutions around the points of contention.

With this paragraph you have shown that you actually hold some pretty prejudiced views on the what women are campaigning for.

This is the both sides attempt.

What women are campaigning for is not ideological. It is based on facts. Facts that are based on abiding historical needs and understanding of risk. And of proven science.

The facts that women have to support their arguments have been ignored based on emotional manipulation.

Emotional manipulation can certainly get policies changed, but policies can get changed back as facts reassert themselves.

You can’t have a population living in a country where on one hand you have the need for sports to remain sex segregated because sex cannot change, then have the safeguarding for women and children existing in parallel supported by the ideological belief that males can be females for safeguarding protocol.

It won’t work in the long run.

And these ‘solutions’ you try to assure us will happen, will eventually revert to single sex spaces remaining single sex, and sports being even more strongly delineated by sex since sex testing was abandoned in the 90’s, and medical experimentation on children stopping.

You have attempted to portray women’s campaigning to be unreasonable.

However, it is not unreasonable. The movement towards the edge cases of medical treatment and sport is already well underway. Single sex spaces will take time. But we are here for the long haul. We have children caught up in this and we are not going anywhere despite your very predictable twists and pivots on this thread.

Besides, each week there is sadly yet another piece of evidence that adds to the large bank already.

Whether it is 1 in 585 ‘transwomen’ sex offenders or 1 in around 1000. The figures will solidify and will show that this group of males are just like the wider group of males. The logical fallacy that they have ‘lost’ somehow their ability to commit sex crime at the same rate as all other males will be proven.

And like all history, it repeats because historical fact is forgotten or manipulated. The last group who tried to portray themselves as exempt from safeguarding protections is still in living memory for many people. That group of males were just as prone to commit sex crimes against women and children too.

So many posters try to emotionally manipulate readers using deception. The LGB movement didn’t want to lower safeguarding, they wanted it equally applied. The church though, pushed the belief that males in their employ were exempt from safeguarding based on their ideology.

That is the correct comparator for safeguarding issues here.

ArabellaScott · 12/01/2023 09:04

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 06:43

Sorry, I can see I missed a step.

miniscule
fake
satire
who cares
sparple/distraction

Then ‘both sides’
Then ‘happening anyway’

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 09:52

I have said it before, and I will say it again.

The misogyny of some males cannot be removed with the declaration of gender identity.

I am just reading about the male who would have been behind the training being given to UK Midwives. This male wrote an essay where the following quote comes from:

“Quite frankly, I bet a whole load of women would love to be as confident and good looking as I am. I’ve got a pretty face, great hair, fantastic legs, and I’ve recently grown some rather shapely breasts.”

Err... yeah.

I think that any poster who wants to continue with the rhetoric of 'outliers', probably needs to understand that those 'outliers' of male hatred towards woman enacted in so many different ways, really are not 'outliers'. It would be overwhelming for us to post each and every example.

The reality is too many males who have declared 'woman' identities just have to type or speak and their misogyny is clear.

The transmaxxing group and the group of males with large breasts (who I don't believe is actually doing it as 'satire' but is fully enjoying their transition) are not outliers. They are really just part of the larger run of the mill males who see womanhood as something they can utilise for their own misogynistic gain. And NAMALT, but even one is too many.

nilsmousehammer · 12/01/2023 10:04

Several outstanding posts on this page Helleofabore

If we were talking about 'outliers' there would be a group of middle of the road TQ+ political groups with an interest in women's voices and needs, presenting moderate solutions that might work for all.

I've seen many women talk about the option of third spaces for example: women concerned with women's rights are merely asking for options that work for women equally well as working for males with TQ+ identities. And equality of care and inclusion and access as provided for males with TQ+ identities.

Asking for equality with male people isn't really 'extreme' is it?

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 10:43

Oohhh ! Quick ELO!! Quick!!!! Other posters on other threads are using the word gatekeeping!!

Better get your gatekeeper hat on and go back into ‘gatekeeping’ the use of the word ‘gatekeeping’ in the world, starting with MN FWR!

We shall keep the beer cold or warm for you !

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 10:56

Asking for equality with male people isn't really 'extreme' is it?

It is not.

Yet, here we have yet another male trying with so many different tactics to present that equality as ‘extreme’.

A supposed feminist on a thread just week declared that those feminists who fought to have sex prioritised over gender where sex matters had defocused from seeking ‘equality of opportunity’. It was most bizarre. In their attempt to shame feminists who disagree with their own personal priorities, they again showed the world they did not understand the discussions on thread after thread on this board.

They reduced equality to only the individual - use of toilets as our focus. Whereas that is not the focus or the objective for the collective.

That is merely an outcome of the overall plan I would say.

ArabellaScott · 12/01/2023 11:06

“Quite frankly, I bet a whole load of women would love to be as confident and good looking as I am. I’ve got a pretty face, great hair, fantastic legs, and I’ve recently grown some rather shapely breasts.”

Makes it sound like some kind of polytunnel experiment. Will we have a special new category in village fetes in future?

nilsmousehammer · 12/01/2023 11:43

They reduced equality to only the individual - use of toilets as our focus.

It's always the fundamental issue of equality in microcosm though.

"Make toilets inclusive and accessible!"

"Ok. Great."

"Let male people use the toilet that they feel best matches their gender!"

"Ok..... but what are we going to do with the females who cannot use mixed sex facilities for toileting? Which toilets do they get?"

"They don't exist! And if they do they're wrong so they don't matter."

".....er, many can't use mixed sex spaces because of protected characteristics, several of them. Inclusion means them too. So how do we sort this so that those males and those females all get equality of access and inclusion and welcome into spaces?"

"They shouldn't have religions or faiths because Reasons, their disabilities don't matter and they should all get over their trauma, (but male people with TQ+ identities' traumas and feelings are totes valid) and if they don't just use mixed sex toilets they're criminals against a just society and it's a fair and fitting punishment that they're self excluding."

"That's not inclusion though is it? That's excluding females from any provision so that any male who wishes can take their preferred choice from all the provisions. That is not equality of access, inclusion, consideration or rights."

"Raaaaaah bigot and Other Words Too!"

"Look, third spaces would work. Third spaces provide the wanted facilities for those TQ+ males and other inclusion needs too for people of both sexes, and we'd then just need those males to respect a female only space for those females who have no equality of access (or any access) if those males refuse to respect it."

"Third spaces are segregation and totes unacceptable and those women don't exist and if they do they don't matter, and we'll do what we want anyway and you can't stop us."

"Yeah so you're not into inclusion. You're into male supremacism."

"I identify as not being!"

"Yeah....."

Have seen that conversation so very many times I know the whole script at this point. Backwards.

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 11:53

nilsmousehammer · 12/01/2023 11:43

They reduced equality to only the individual - use of toilets as our focus.

It's always the fundamental issue of equality in microcosm though.

"Make toilets inclusive and accessible!"

"Ok. Great."

"Let male people use the toilet that they feel best matches their gender!"

"Ok..... but what are we going to do with the females who cannot use mixed sex facilities for toileting? Which toilets do they get?"

"They don't exist! And if they do they're wrong so they don't matter."

".....er, many can't use mixed sex spaces because of protected characteristics, several of them. Inclusion means them too. So how do we sort this so that those males and those females all get equality of access and inclusion and welcome into spaces?"

"They shouldn't have religions or faiths because Reasons, their disabilities don't matter and they should all get over their trauma, (but male people with TQ+ identities' traumas and feelings are totes valid) and if they don't just use mixed sex toilets they're criminals against a just society and it's a fair and fitting punishment that they're self excluding."

"That's not inclusion though is it? That's excluding females from any provision so that any male who wishes can take their preferred choice from all the provisions. That is not equality of access, inclusion, consideration or rights."

"Raaaaaah bigot and Other Words Too!"

"Look, third spaces would work. Third spaces provide the wanted facilities for those TQ+ males and other inclusion needs too for people of both sexes, and we'd then just need those males to respect a female only space for those females who have no equality of access (or any access) if those males refuse to respect it."

"Third spaces are segregation and totes unacceptable and those women don't exist and if they do they don't matter, and we'll do what we want anyway and you can't stop us."

"Yeah so you're not into inclusion. You're into male supremacism."

"I identify as not being!"

"Yeah....."

Have seen that conversation so very many times I know the whole script at this point. Backwards.

Yes.

It is hilarious when new posters think they have something new! And then follow the same script as usual.

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 11:56

ArabellaScott · 12/01/2023 11:06

“Quite frankly, I bet a whole load of women would love to be as confident and good looking as I am. I’ve got a pretty face, great hair, fantastic legs, and I’ve recently grown some rather shapely breasts.”

Makes it sound like some kind of polytunnel experiment. Will we have a special new category in village fetes in future?

The hatred in that statement from that male is remarkable! Yet, this male was going to ‘educate’ midwives.

Yeah… But outlier! Just an outlier!

Of course, it is why a poster wanted to stick us on terminology and ‘jargon’.

SockGoddess · 12/01/2023 12:12

What I don't get about third spaces is that a significant part of gender ideology is about sex and gender not being binary and the existence of other "genders" such as non-binary, not to mention the 100+ other ones you get in some lists, genderflux, maverique, and loads of other things that claim to not be simply man or woman. So surely a third, fully mixed space is exactly what's needed? It could accommodate everyone who doesn't want to use a single-sex space, including all the allies who want to reassure trans people of the opposite sex that they are happy to share spaces with them.

Why aren't all the non-binary people kicking off and demanding third, non-binary spaces? If a non-binary person can go in a toilet they think is not right for their "gender identity", so can a male TW surely.

WifeMotherWorker · 12/01/2023 12:20

These people need MH support. Its all so depressing and scary that this fetish and huge focus of sex is being normalised… full body organisms, multiple organisms from penile stimulation, sensitive breasts, appealing to lesbians! Eurgh females don’t think like this, it just screams male sexual deviance.
Also what is it that men can’t understand about lesbians being attracted to women, as in legitimate XX females??

nilsmousehammer · 12/01/2023 12:43

SockGoddess · 12/01/2023 12:12

What I don't get about third spaces is that a significant part of gender ideology is about sex and gender not being binary and the existence of other "genders" such as non-binary, not to mention the 100+ other ones you get in some lists, genderflux, maverique, and loads of other things that claim to not be simply man or woman. So surely a third, fully mixed space is exactly what's needed? It could accommodate everyone who doesn't want to use a single-sex space, including all the allies who want to reassure trans people of the opposite sex that they are happy to share spaces with them.

Why aren't all the non-binary people kicking off and demanding third, non-binary spaces? If a non-binary person can go in a toilet they think is not right for their "gender identity", so can a male TW surely.

Quite.

The females able and happy to use a mixed sex space won't do, will they? If you ask for there to be a space reserved as female only for those females who depend on this for their access and inclusion, then it is a threat, because there remain a group of females unconquered, and they become the target. There is a bit of womanhood not owned.

Which makes it very plain, it has nothing to do with the space or anything 'inclusive'. It is about male primacy, control and ownership of anything designated female. And females can either comply or be punished by exclusion from society.

And that's absolutely outrageously unacceptable.

WandaWomblesaurus · 12/01/2023 12:47

Boiledbeetle · 07/01/2023 16:25

When are they going to realise that we already have a word for all of this.

Personality

That's all this shit is. They are expressing their personality. But do we have to be subjected to every bloody thought that comes into their heads???? Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh

Lack of personality but abundance of entitlement.

Datun · 12/01/2023 12:49

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 11:56

The hatred in that statement from that male is remarkable! Yet, this male was going to ‘educate’ midwives.

Yeah… But outlier! Just an outlier!

Of course, it is why a poster wanted to stick us on terminology and ‘jargon’.

Christ. Can you imagine a male, displaying such a profound lack of understanding of womanhood, actually being given the job of talking to midwives?

Jeez the misogyny. There's tone deaf, but then there is such a dislike and envy of women that it oozes out of every pore.

Especially disturbing as it's a concept of 'woman' that is entirely self created.

HootyMcboob76 · 12/01/2023 13:32

Helleofabore · 12/01/2023 11:56

The hatred in that statement from that male is remarkable! Yet, this male was going to ‘educate’ midwives.

Yeah… But outlier! Just an outlier!

Of course, it is why a poster wanted to stick us on terminology and ‘jargon’.

The sheer hatred of woman seems to be par for the course, which is odd given that they "identify" as women and want to "be women".
They "woman" better than actual women obviously! They have better hair, better makeup, nicer clothes, they're more feminine, better in bed.
I'm reminded of Jordan Gray's recent appearance on TV where the sheer hatred in his lyrics shone through clearly.
He then went on to expose himself and play the piano with his cock.

But, just another outlier eh, ELO?

Onionbelt · 29/04/2024 07:47

HootyMcboob76 · 10/01/2023 19:38

"accept any nonsense to the point that they would be fine with a guy in fetish gear teaching a reception class because it's an expression of his true self."

We're not that far away.

Seriously, what is that god-awful picture?

Onionbelt · 29/04/2024 23:03

Boiledbeetle · 29/04/2024 08:26

That was the Canadian teacher! Loads of articles on internet, but here's one to start you off. The school board let him teach with those!

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/09/ontario-teacher-prosthetic-bust-school-board-defends/

Right. I have no words. I mean, I do, but I can't... wtf...

Boiledbeetle · 29/04/2024 23:21

Onionbelt · 29/04/2024 23:03

Right. I have no words. I mean, I do, but I can't... wtf...

😁

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