Can I be forced to use pronouns?

[nationallampoons]

Hi all.

I work in hospitality and my company have recently taken on some new recruits.

One is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns but is considering she/her pronouns. He was born male. He looks male. He had the same uniform as you would expect, neon hair, piercings, multiple badges on his uniform stating his pronouns, he's vegan, free Palestine, f Boris etc.. (I'm not against freeing Palestine or vegans) but you can imagine the type. Everyone's a "facist" etc.. it's draining at times.

Here is my problem, I don't want to use they/them pronouns. It feels unnatural when talking and I struggle with it anyway. I just don't want to do it, I don't care if that makes me rude. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of being moaned at for misgendering. He just doesn't shut up about it.

Now he's saying he believes he may be a woman and is asking questions about "women hood" and all that bs, I've told him I'm not comfortable talking to him about it and I was called a boomer, a Karen and a gammon?? He is considering changing his pronouns in the new year.

Here is my question. Legally, can I be forced to use his preferred pronouns? Not arsed about losing my job, but I don't want to get into any criminal trouble

I just want to go to work, earn my living and go home. I don't have the time or energy or willingness to go along with this bullshit

Just call him dear all the time. Be a dear and pass me that plate. Could you be a dear and clear that table. Thank you dear etc.

I’m thankful I haven’t had to come across this in real life but I wouldn’t want to pander to it. Not out of disrespect per se but because I don’t believe so many young people really genuinely believe they’re in the wrong body. Most just want to feel special and it’s oh so boring and conventional to just ‘be’.

It’s a complete movement and acceptance of use of language.

So your argument is that it's not "special treatment", because it's totalitarianism?

Oookaay...

But you're not really encouraging me to comply.

They’re not even in earshot when pronouns are used. Their name is used or ‘you’. Can ‘you’ do this etc. No one is addressed directly with he or she. I’ll say ‘they’ because that was in common use anyway but I’m not going to say he or she when they are not of that biological sex.

@Afterfire it is special treatment - the pronouns we use for obviously male people are instinctive . Using incorrect pronouns requires a lot of effort, and using they/them in the singular requires mangling of grammar. “Where is Fred? They is in the kitchen”

it requires fuck all of the person asking it, and is a huge effort for everyone around them.

It is not where we are.
This movement relies heavily on conning people into believing that genderwoo is generally accepted. It is not. It's the religion of a tiny minority.

You don't want to end up in prison like this teacher in Ireland
www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/12/22/enoch-burke-released-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-student/
though it does seem like he and his family are a bunch of dickheads.

I just don’t see the harm in going along with it. That’s my personal view. My dd has two best friends who are they / them. My son has a friend who is they / them.

I do think language changes over time and I think it’s important to go along with that. If people want to be referred to as they / them then why not at least make an effort to try to accommodate that? It doesn’t mean you have to get into the whole trans / gender / sex debate if you don’t want to. It’s literally just a way of referring to someone. People are making it far more complicated than it needs to be and the only outcome is anger and hatred - for what?

Haven’t got time for the intolerance.

I admit it doesn’t come naturally to me to use they / them but I do so because I’m not an intolerant arsehole.

This.

He sounds like a twat.

How he identifies is not work-related, and he should STFU about it.

Why do you need to use pronouns? I don’t think I’ve ever used them with colleagues, I just say their name. Just use their name, you don’t have to ‘agree’ with it. People always shorten my name and I find it really rude, as I’ve said what I want to be called. Just think of it like that, no need to use pronouns.

One way would be to always his mane rather than pronoun. Then you avoid the issue.

I would be greyrocking him and keep a list of all the personal attack he is making (gammon, Karen etc… ).
Keep your manager in the loop too.

But what will be working best is to look ‘perfect’ as in no direct attack at him whilst he is doing his best at looking a twat/attacking people.

've told him I'm not comfortable talking to him about it and I was called a boomer, a Karen and a gammon?

You need to complain about this. He can resolve it with an apology, it doesn't need to be a huge deal, but there needs to be a formal record of him harassing you.

Please, please trust me, from experience, that if you don't do this you are risking much greater problems down the road.

On how to refer to him: presumably he isn't there when you need to say he? In which case don't worry about it. If he is, and objects, I would do it for now, at least sometimes, so as not to muddy the waters.

I just don’t see the harm in going along with it.

Okay, others can deal with that. But do you any harm in not going along with it?

NAME, not mane…..

Well yes, because the person who wants to be referred to as they might find offensive and be hurt by my behaviour. If I kept referring to my dh as “she” I’m sure he’d find that weird and be fed up with me! It really isn’t hard to make an effort, is it? If someone told you their name was Bob and you kept calling the Glenda they’d be pretty annoyed wouldn’t they?

There is a harm in going along with it though, that is the whole point ! Going along with it is shoring up the ideology of gender which is so damaging to women and girls.

Calling someone gammon verges on hate speech so report it asap. It is a derogatory name for a white person, usually middle aged, who goes red in the face as they express what are usually seen as 'conservative' views.

@Afterfire
Just wanted to add, they and them are normally used for a person whose sex is unknown eg a hypothetical candidate for a job, or for any one of a group of people who might be of either sex.

Clitoral Violence

But it’s not about ‘tolerance’. Don’t you see that? It’s about subscribing to an alien and unreal philosophy that people can actually change sex. News flash - they can’t. It’s an arrogance to compel people to name something they are patently not. Why are we being made to do that in our workplaces? Why are we considered the aggressors when we aren’t forcing others against their will? Its being imposed unwilling against us!

Barracker's excellent article - 'Pronouns are Rohypnol' for anyone who hasn't seen it -

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I disagree.

I do understand the point but I don’t agree. I don’t feel threatened as a woman because someone chooses to use they / them. I am still and always will be “she”. Mumsnet has such a weird stance on all this stuff and it just isn’t reflected (thankfully) in real life.

Well yes, because the person who wants to be referred to as they might find offensive and be hurt by my behaviour.

Okay, so someone might be offended if the "request" is refused.

But why is that a valid "harm", but the "harm" of someone feeling offended by being asked to deny someone's sex not valid?

It really isn’t hard to make an effort, is it?

By the same logic - if someone calls you "he" because you're male, then it's not hard to make an effort to understand why they might be quite insistent on that, is it?

Given everything else going on due to the denial of people's sex. Not everything revolves around you, it's about the general principle.

People who feel they can demand others to deny their sex need to learn to be less intolerant.

What on earth are you talking about?

You can choose your name, so of course others should use it. You cannot choose your sex, so demanding that others use a special, counterintuitive, inaccurate, awkward and ungrammatical language for you is an imposition.