Can I be forced to use pronouns?

[nationallampoons]

Hi all.

I work in hospitality and my company have recently taken on some new recruits.

One is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns but is considering she/her pronouns. He was born male. He looks male. He had the same uniform as you would expect, neon hair, piercings, multiple badges on his uniform stating his pronouns, he's vegan, free Palestine, f Boris etc.. (I'm not against freeing Palestine or vegans) but you can imagine the type. Everyone's a "facist" etc.. it's draining at times.

Here is my problem, I don't want to use they/them pronouns. It feels unnatural when talking and I struggle with it anyway. I just don't want to do it, I don't care if that makes me rude. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of being moaned at for misgendering. He just doesn't shut up about it.

Now he's saying he believes he may be a woman and is asking questions about "women hood" and all that bs, I've told him I'm not comfortable talking to him about it and I was called a boomer, a Karen and a gammon?? He is considering changing his pronouns in the new year.

Here is my question. Legally, can I be forced to use his preferred pronouns? Not arsed about losing my job, but I don't want to get into any criminal trouble

I just want to go to work, earn my living and go home. I don't have the time or energy or willingness to go along with this bullshit

Gender is a religion, he has no more right to insist you call him they or she than the evangelical christian does to insist you agree that there is a god and to engage in prayer every day in the workplace. If he wants to call himself special then he can crack on but he can't insist that everyone else joins in. To me, using a pronoun other than he for a man is the same as taking communion at mass, it's actively participating in a belief system that I don't believe in and nobody should be expected to do that.

This. Definitely put in an official complaint against him for workplace bullying. He’s obviously into compelled speech and bullying women; and so he will one day put a complaint in about you, and you would be well advised to get your side of the story in first ie that he raised a sensitive political topic in the workplace, refused to respect your beliefs and when you said you were not comfortable having that discussion in the workplace he called you several misogynistic and ageist insults.

Well yes, because the person who wants to be referred to as they might find offensive and be hurt by my behaviour.

If I am hurt and offended every time I am not greeted with a curtsey, should others be forced to do so? Because this pronoun nonsense is an act of subservience, nothing more. Nobody is literally bowing and scraping any more, but this is definitely about power and control.

I have also known a transsexual in real life (female to male) and I always used he (though to be fair I was more shocked to find out they were born female because I had absolutely no idea). They walked the walk, they weren’t a ‘they’ but a ‘he’. I don’t think a lot of the youngsters today who declare themselves to be they/them will still be feeling like that in a few years. There are many YouTube videos now of young adults bitterly regretting their transitions and my heart really goes out to them because they had been brainwashed by certain factions whose only motivation was making a lot of money.

Just a point the term 'educate yourself' was used extensively by TRA's and unfortunately for them, lots of women went off and did exactly that. For anyone looking for a good source to understand many of the issues surrounding the safety, dignity and safeguarding of women and children, this is a brilliant thread -

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Thats 3 pronouns there, Querulous. ///

@Princessglittery
My most recent post should have made clear that I think mandating compliance with a request for special pronouns is not neutral, etc.

Definitely not a troll. Just pointing out your hypocrisy. Again, who are you to say who is trans?

And despite the eyerollingly oft repeated shrieks of 'you don't believe that transpeople exist', people here know perfectly well that trans people exist. They just don't believe that being trans means 1) that that person has literally changed sex or 2) that being trans means that they are entitled to use the single sex spaces of the people who are the opposite sex to them.

Well yes, because the person who wants to be referred to as they might find offensive and be hurt by my behaviour.

eh? A life time in construction me, just a quick selection

Oi mate
Hey mister
Sorry mate
Good afternoon Mr....
Pleased to meet you Sir
By email dear Mr....
By letter dear Mr....
By fax dear Mr....

The pissed off one's

you fucking cock
you bell end
I bet you suck cock. (I'll give them that one, not the insult they thought it was though)
.........

Oh the literal hurty words violence, torment and anguish this has caused me. Just thinking it about it..I just...i.mean I cant...even ohhhh Raises hand to head.faints.

I am not offended by someone claiming a special identity, that is just foolishness. I am offended by such people demanding that I believe, or act as if I believe, that they have changed sex, or have gendered souls or are eternally sox years old. Or are a cat.
You forget that many of the contributors to this forum have friends, loved ones or colleagues who claim special identities.

You could just your the persons first name at all times. I feel the same, have decided it's names only but on occasion 'they' as its neutral eg "I'm looking for Claire, are they in staffroom...what does Claire want for lunch, are they having noodles or rice". Whole thing is ridiculous and will not be looked upon well by history.

From a HR pov, I think you would be in the wrong in the long run (not that I agree). However this person, whether male of female has asked specifically not to be called something. And you are still insisting on using that term. This is a Very new and very gray area. I would be careful. Just try and use they or name.

On the flip side I was brought up that saying 'she/he/they did it' was rude (who's she? The cats mother?).
Personally i don't give a shit if you want to be called a lamp post ir banana hammock. That's your choice, I'll try and remember, however I'm older and its not term that has been in my vocabulary for long so i may forget.

In my dd1s group of friends 2 use they/them/he. They are biologically female . I struggle sometimes and just use their name. I have explained I'm of a time that was taught something totally different to them and its hard to unlearn, i mean no offence. They have accepted this.
My sil however cannot. Her dd (14) hates being female/hates her figure/can't take a compliment or critasism, wants to use he/him/they/them. Fine. I try. But I'm Human and slip up for 14 years they have been she not he. She has taken my head off before! And then her DD crys that we're not accepting and spouts all kinds of shit. Its very hard work. I have explained i mean no offence but its now at a stage I avoid any conversation either with or about this child as every thing is taken the wrong way. Its even harder as they dress extremely provocatively, (very curvey with extremely low cut tops and short skirts, heavy make up). I don't understand how you can dress like that and want to be the opposite. The last instance that broke me was a very inappropriate low cut top, her breast was exposed and hanging out of her top after running downstairs, lots of people in the house. I discreetly told her, out of view and earshot of others. She ran upstairs crying that i had bodyshamed her. I was trying to stop a 14 yr old exposing their nipple to a houseful of guests. But I'm the bad guy. 🙄Sil called me later to tell me i had traumatised her dd, and she was now on the Internet buying a breast binder.

I've had a look for you OP and this is some of what was said about the word Gammon as an insult(I'd never heard of it being used before as an insult neither)this is from the Urban Dictionary

Gammon
An old conservative Englishman who bickers on about minorities instead of helping solve the country's issues.
1 : Dad keeps complaining about the Syrian couple across the road
2: Just ignore him, he's a hateful old gammon
1: Yeah, you're right.
by Banana Banzai November 5, 2022

Gammon
British slang, stereotype of a right-wing person who is seemingly always sunburned.

The kind of person who thinks that "flour" is a spice, that there's too many Spaniards in Spain, and that they "Don't want any of that foreign muck" when abroad instead only eating Chips and Sausages
A: Did you see that guy over there?
B: Which one?
A: the Gammon complaining to the waiter that the chicken is "too spicy" cause it has peppercorns on it
by Jeffbridgesiscool March 27, 20

Gammon
Predominantly directly towards white males but, can be directed to most caucasians.

This is because when white people are being flustered/angry, they become pink in hue on their face, similar to a gammon.
Barry you are a fuckin’ Gammon.

Gammon
A racial slur against white people, typically used in Great Britain.

Gammon
Term for female, indirectly refers to vagina also.

Sorry I don't know how to add website's on here so had to copy it over but basically it is a disgusting slur,there are tons more insults described on that website for Gammon means and they're all sexist and lots of them are racist as well, I really think you need to report what he's calling you.

@Ohdofuckofdear @nationallampoons I'd be having for the gammons after ODFOD's post. First shift back first job complaint in officially.I bet he has no clue what it means and if he does he should be sacked.

And to add.when you meet me, and even from behind, I am very obviously of the female half of the species.

You do not have to engage in any non work related conversation that you are uncomfortable with and your colleague should not be name-calling. However, just call someone whatever they ask to be called. It really shouldn't be any skin off your nose. My advice would be to be polite and professional and expect the same of others.

My response to a biological male who when I first met them had a male name and now has a female name (in English anyway) is not to use pronouns at all, and use their name. It is one of our suppliers and so everyone at that company I ever refer to is by name- if there was a woman called Kate, I would address her as Kate, for example.

@BellaAmorosa
What I was saying is that the position you outlined is not neutral or balanced or respectful of GC beliefs.

I agree that the balance is not right and rebalancing is going to take time. However, the problem is how do you be respectful of both GC and GI beliefs when they are so opposed. Dismissing/eradicating GI beliefs is no more right than trying to eradicate GC beliefs, women and sex etc. people are allowed to have different opinions.

I believe compromise is required on both sides, so whilst I am prepared to use someone’s preferred pro-nouns I expect them not call me a Cis woman. I would much rather take a pragmatic view and have male, female and unisex toilet provision in proportion to users. I want a prison to be set up for transwomen, I doubt they want that, but it’s the compromise that keeps women’s prisons for biological females only.

Yes to this.
They’re seeking the oxygen of attention.
Shut off the pipe!

It is skin off the OP's nose, though. She doesn't want to do it. She herself isn't demanding that the co-worker doesn't request it, or that nobody else should use they/them or wrong sex pronouns when referring to this person. Why does he get to force her to?

I’m not forgetting anything. If you want to get really personal, my Ds has autism and learning difficulties. I have multiple chronic physical disabilities. I know a fair bit about having “special identities” and what it means to be different and to have people treat you differently because of that. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to be trans, and I don’t necessarily agree with everything pro trans related. I just think it is important to try and accommodate people’s wishes to be referred to by their chosen pronouns. You can do that and still have intellectual debates online about the ins and ours of trans debates anonymously if you so wish. You just won’t seem like so much of an arse in real life.

I'm currently involved in an Employment Tribunal relating to my gender critical views. It's not fun - even with a great deal of support.

So I'd say t's important to ask yourself whether you generally enjoy your job and want to stay in it. I think that in general terms it is important to model respect and courtesy to your colleagues even if you disagree with their views, and to try and avoid unnecessary confrontation. If you don't agree with they/them pronouns, then, as others have suggested try to avoid using them, while also avoiding language (eg he/him) that your colleague might choose to object to.

If management are involved in trying to compel your speech, then that is a more serious problem. The Free Speech Union might then be able to give some general advice about how best to proceed.

@BellaAmorosa An employer has a right to set the code of conduct on the behaviour it expects from its employees and how they speak to each other and customers etc.

I am not saying using preferred pro-nouns at work is neutral what I am saying is legally it is not unreasonable for an employer to expect employees to respect peoples pro-nouns.

Many other GC posters have children on the autism spectrum and/or are themselves disabled. What is the point you are trying to make?

Also, why is it important to you to accommodate one set of people's wishes and not another set? Especially as the wishes of the second set of people do not require the first set to do anything differently or change their beliefs.