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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged

266 replies

h2Oo · 29/12/2022 21:05

Okay, so I'd like some good old reasoning on this as I appreciate a lot of you are more insightful than me!

I believe men have 0 place in women's toilets, changing families or women only spaces.

But this tripped me up... what do I say to this? It popped up on twitter and I don't know what to argument would be

This woman was questioned because she looks too masculine. But she is indeed a biological woman through and through

www.itv.com/news/central/2022-12-26/cancer-survivor-challenged-at-public-toilets-after-being-mistaken-for-a-man

What is the answer? I just don't know

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:55

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 01:54

No it's not, don't be ridiculous.

Yes it is. Unless you’re a police officer.

Blister · 30/12/2022 01:55

Challenged women are upset so we have to let men into the ladies.

Perfect reasoning.

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:56

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 01:53

What's the difference between a man and a transwoman?

Should someone have challenged the man who assaulted you, or just let him get on with it in case they offended someone?

I don’t think they would have dared to, like other posters on here have said, the physically intimidating types don’t get challenged.

WendelineTestaburger · 30/12/2022 01:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

WendelineTestaburger · 30/12/2022 01:58

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 01:58

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 01:53

What's the difference between a man and a transwoman?

Should someone have challenged the man who assaulted you, or just let him get on with it in case they offended someone?

I mean my tits and arse may be a giveaway

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:59

Blister · 30/12/2022 01:55

Challenged women are upset so we have to let men into the ladies.

Perfect reasoning.

That’s not the reasoning.
In fact no one has reported an incidence where they have challenged a masculine presenting person and it has not been a GNC woman. It’s always been I’ve done it, and she was a woman and I apologised.

So, where are all these TW being successfully challenged and booted out?

LK1972 · 30/12/2022 01:59

Ok, apparently asking if someone is in the right toilet is against the law now?

'Policing by Vigilantes = citizens taking the law in their own hands or acting contrary to the law.

That’s what is happening.'

Are you for real @Onnabugeisha ?

Blister · 30/12/2022 01:59

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:59

That’s not the reasoning.
In fact no one has reported an incidence where they have challenged a masculine presenting person and it has not been a GNC woman. It’s always been I’ve done it, and she was a woman and I apologised.

So, where are all these TW being successfully challenged and booted out?

Izzard

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 02:00

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Both are happening. 🤨

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 02:00

No harm done to you….you can’t speak for her
This

Blister · 30/12/2022 02:00

Wi spa

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 02:01

Blister · 30/12/2022 01:59

Izzard

Source? Who stopped Izzard from using the womens toilets?

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 02:01

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:59

That’s not the reasoning.
In fact no one has reported an incidence where they have challenged a masculine presenting person and it has not been a GNC woman. It’s always been I’ve done it, and she was a woman and I apologised.

So, where are all these TW being successfully challenged and booted out?

Here's one
4w.pub/brazil-trans-identified-man-violence/

LK1972 · 30/12/2022 02:02

@EvilBee So women are tits and arse now? I thought we were just a feeling?

So complicated, this woman thing.

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 02:02

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:55

Yes it is. Unless you’re a police officer.

Step away from the gin.

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 02:03

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 02:00

No harm done to you….you can’t speak for her
This

I'm not going to stop making sure it's not a man going into the toilet behind my child in case someone gets upset.
I'm 43 and this situation has happened just once.

ZombieMumEB · 30/12/2022 02:04

@Onnabugeisha
If it’s clear, why can’t you zoom and then screen shot? Is it because just like for me, it’s still blurred when you zoom in? As I said, Twitter lifted the photo from the news and then added text & images to the blurred badge.

It doesn’t even make sense what they added. Her name is Tiffany. She uses she/her per all the articles and Facebook. There’s no way if she were Taylor and had changed her pronouns to they/them that every news outlet would have called her by a dead name and misgendered her.

It's obviously been blurred out because the media and TRA have an agenda. They don't like the truth, and need to resort to lies, no debate, or abusive threats.

The image is much clearer here. Original image:: Leicester Mercury / Chris Gordon
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/tiffany-i-called-timothy-because-7896634

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged
Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 02:05

Blister · 30/12/2022 02:00

Wi spa

One. In a country of 380 million.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 02:05

LK1972 · 30/12/2022 01:49

@EvilBee Why are you popping up here, haven't you been all over FWR threads telling us you're a transwoman? Do you think you shouldn't be challenged in women's loos either?

That's uncalled for. I'm not familiar with evilbee as don't really recognise the name, but they have every right to post on here just like the rest of us
Who made you the Mumsnet Police?

LK1972 · 30/12/2022 02:05

@Onnabugeisha 'the physically intimidating types don’t get challenged.' - yes, that's when women get staff involved, when they are intimidated, is that clear to you now?

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 02:05

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 01:58

I mean my tits and arse may be a giveaway

So there we have it. The difference between a man and a transwoman is some silicone.

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 02:05

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:41

Thanks! I see it now. So strange.

So have we stopped talking about Tiffany now you've been proven wrong?
Any apologies for saying that gender criticals had doctored the photo?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 02:05

@EvilBee

I'm not being silly - please see attached where Stock said what she did and 'male people' i.e. what normal people call transsexual women, have used women's facilities for a long time. Do you think that Caroline Cossey was using the men's loos in the 70's and 80's?

You are being silly, or at least disingenous.

Firstly, the social contract pre-exists trans women using women's spaces. Which is obvious when you think about it, because if it didn't those spaces would not have existed for trans women to use.

Secondly, as I think I have already explained to you on another thread, the fact that consent may have been given, or at least not strongly protested, to the small number of physically transitioned trans women who started to use some female spaces in the later twentieth century does not mean that consent cannot be revoked today, when the impact of that is better understood, the number of trans women has greatly increased, the expectation of physical transition has gone, and the construction of trans identity has changed from a polite courtesy extended to accomodate someone "as" the opposite sex to an insistence they "are" the opposite sex and should gain all that sex's rights and resources as an absolute right regardless of their own behaviour.

By happy coincidence, I was around in the 70s and 80s, and a GNC child to boot. Yes, from time to time someone might say "son, that's the ladies" and I or my mum would say "I am a girl" and that was all. No one thought I was deliberately trying to be somewhere I should not be. I didn't like it happening because I was a bit bullied at school for not being appropriately girly, which is probably one of the reasons I've grown up gender critical and feminist, but I didn't feel personally attacked or shamed by it. If GNC people today are finding they are challenged more aggressively now than I was back then, I think we have to recognise that is the result of the creeping encroachment of male people into female resources that has happened since then.

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 02:06

So, that’s 2 globally now, 2 out of 8 billion.

How big is this threat again?