Woman mistaken for a man and challenged

[h2Oo]

Okay, so I'd like some good old reasoning on this as I appreciate a lot of you are more insightful than me!

I believe men have 0 place in women's toilets, changing families or women only spaces.

But this tripped me up... what do I say to this? It popped up on twitter and I don't know what to argument would be

This woman was questioned because she looks too masculine. But she is indeed a biological woman through and through

www.itv.com/news/central/2022-12-26/cancer-survivor-challenged-at-public-toilets-after-being-mistaken-for-a-man

What is the answer? I just don't know

Don't be silly.

We just want the social contract that already existed, where male people stayed out of private female spaces. We didn't "police" it then and we should not have to now.

It is the genderist males, with their entitled expectation that female spaces should be open to them because they really, really want them and it's just not fair to have people say no when you really want something, who are insisting that they will ignore what women (original female meaning) might actually want, and that it's fine that male people will take what they want unless they are physically prevented.

@mumarooni csn you think of a name for the category of person who typically make toilets unsafe. Starts with an M.

Do men mind when trans men use male toilets? Why didn’t the transman use the male toilets?

transmen using male toilets poses different issues to transwomen using female toilets- quite obviously transmen aren’t from the group that are a threat to the users of male toilets

Murderers? Muggers? Sorry I'm being obtuse I hope it comes across with the tongue in cheek intended. I do I know more aggressive crimes are committed by men, but I also know the vast majority of men are safe to pee near. And if safety is the key aim, then safer spaces would work for everyone? I also think some loos are less likely to be safe (eg those used alongside drinking at night) and I think a much higher standard of architectural safety there would be great. I have felt unsafe in (single sex) loos when people had too much to drink and were fighting eachother etc. I do think loo safety is a real issue. It's just doesn't translate to a strictly trans issue to me at all.

Are you really that naïve? The person has decided that they don't want to identify as female. And yet theyre complaining that they’ve been challenged when entering the ladies toilets. Bit of an own goal here don't you think?
”I want you to see me as neither male or female but I’m also going to present as male and use the ladies”.
Clearly you don’t approve of harassment of people in toilets. Neither do I. Which is why I don’t want any males in there as I consider that to be harassment.

That's rather like replying to the issue of men raping women in women's prisons by saying that we just shouldn't put people in prison.

At the moment, many women can only access single sex toilets. And men using whichever toilets they prefer, excludes women from any provision at all in order that men can have the freedom of choice and validation they would like.

Demonstrating that a powerful group are successfully disenfranchising and oppressing a less powerful group. Which is what equality legislation is for: to protect the interests of the less powerful when the more powerful lack the conscience or ability to equally respect the needs of others.

'I was playing with my breasts like a stress ball' uh huh, like all women do. 🤔

MrsOvertonsWindow 😆

OP, Seriously? This old chestnut gets rolled out time and again. How fortunate there’s always someone there with a camera (in the toilets FFS) to record the event 🙄

.....well only the very unwell ones, let's put it that way.

I've never actually encountered one unwell enough to do that.

I think women should always be able to challenge anyone they worry is putting their safety at risk.

Yes, I'd rather be challenged in every public toilet I entered than live in a world where women are so intimidated and cowed they won't speak up for themselves. You?

I'd rather not be feeling like I was going to get challenged every time I went in a female toilet because I didn't look "feminine" 🙄 enough even though I have every right to be in there, that's more intimidating and threatening to me than the will I or won't I see a trans woman in there going about her business and probably doesn't even give a toss about what others are doing in there and just going for a pee like the rest of us

That was a line in the newspaper that jumped out at me too. TBH, the whole story was a bit suspect to me.

I'd love to know how many "women" play with their breasts like a stress ball. 🙄

she does look quite masculine. I can't think she's not an amateur weightlifter with forearms like those. but if someone felt worried enough to challenge her, a simple reply would have been easily sufficient to calm things down, a few words (any words, including words indicating that offence had been taken) spoken in an even halfway plausibly female voice, which by the looks of things this lady will certainly have, would clear it all up.

Catandcoffee zero?!

I can believe that many masculine women are asked occasionally if they are in the right space. This has always happened. It was never suggested that this was harrassment. There must be a tiny number of women who found it rather frustrating, but sometimes life is frustrating. It certainly didn’t make the news anywhere.

By an astonishing coincidence, at exactly the same time men began to claim they were women and insisted on using women’s spaces, a behaviour that was previously a normal part of life for a few women has suddenly become much more widespread and is somehow newsworthy?

Coincidentally, some women who are obviously female, even in pictures have started to experience this phenomenon incredibly often.

Of course the women who claim it’s harrassment are usually very much in favour of men using women’s spaces, some of the most vocal holding political positions lobbying for transactivism, but of course that’s another coincidence too.

It’s also coincidental that something that was previously an occasional inconvenience is now harrassment, to the point where fear is experienced.

Aren’t all these coincidences astonishing?

It's possible to want single sex toilets without making comments like this about this woman's appearance "she does look quite masculine. I can't think she's not an amateur weightlifter with forearms like those"

It's possible to not want men in women's toilets but still see women being challenged as a regrettable outcome.

I didn't ever worry before this nonesense about being challenged. I do now. (although never have been). Are you suggesting this is untrue?

That's a real shame for ... is it her, or they? I honestly don't even know. I have checked, but there seems to be pronoun confusion. Glad she/they is over the cancer and I hope she/they continues to recover.

So, if they is a 'they' then how are they being 'misgendered' if they is in the women's loos?

a trans woman in there going about her business and probably doesn't even give a toss about what others are doing in there

That's rather the problem. That TW invade women's spaces and don't give a toss about the women in there.

Yes, I know it's not what you meant, but male rights activists rarely recognise the rights of women, and instead use language to mean exactly what they want it to mean at that moment, in order to give away anything that is women's..

Their name is Tiffany. Taylor is their surname. 🙄

I've been misgendered many times.

Do you think the papers will be interested?