Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

Sashohoho
Rosebudding was taught to children in Warwickshire schools via their online SRE programme. Posters on Mumsnet got involved with the Safe Schools Alliance campaign to "persuade" Warwickshire Council that teaching children below the age of consent shouldn't be taught about :
Felching
Sunflowering
Bukkake and other niche adult sexual behaviours.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3795892--All-about-me-Sex-Relationships-primary-education

It's just outright terrifying that stuff like this has made it to the being taught in schools level.

How, just how did any of it get through all the safeguarding, checks and balances, and however many supposedly intelligent people have read these things.

Christ on a bike. The most we got in primary education was a tv wheeled in to watch a video showing an egg and some sperm and a brief appearance from a penis and a vulva, prompting much laughter and many red faces.

Not saying that’s right either but I’m sure there’s a middle ground somewhere.

The middle ground is teaching ordinary vanilla sex, with the emphasis on consent, and understanding consent, especially aimed at the boys. Kink and everything else is for adults, and I see nothing wrong with telling kids that while they may see stuff online, this is not "normal" sexual activity for most people. Tell boys and girls it's OK to not want to do any of that stuff, in fact most girls don't want choking, bukake or anal, and it's wrong wrong wrong to try and persuade them they do. In fact, the more I think about it, there is no middle ground, there's right and wrong, and if that makes me a prude, I'll take it.

I'm not judging anyone who is into any of that but it should not be taught to young people as everyday activity.

All I can remember from sex ed at school was the slide of a gonorrheic penis. In glorious close up and full colour. Watched a bit of 70s and 80s porn in my late teens/early 20s, very tame and formulaic as Crows describes, spanking of schoolgirls probably the most aberrant thing in there. Saw quite a bit of male gay porn in the 90s - as an HIV nurse - and found that much sexier. But it all got very boring very quickly, and I couldn’t bear the girl-on-girl stuff because of those long painted fingernails, the last thing I’d want near my most precious parts.

Quite a few terms in the last few posts that I've no idea of the meaning of (and have no desire to google) ... sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

All I can remember from sex ed at school was the slide of a gonorrheic penis. In glorious close up and full colour.

Enough to put you off for life, or at least a few years. Up with this sort of thing!

@ErrolTheDragon me neither. I’ve heard some of the terms but would rather not know what they refer to.

I am just gob-smacked that anyone could have thought teaching that stuff to young kids is OK. Then again, it's not the first time I've been gob-smacked by stuff I've found here.

Queer theory is a large part of the answer regrettably. The "No Outsiders" debacle where mainly Muslim parents protected outside primary schools revealed a range of unexpected vested interests from adult lobby groups where queer theory and activism was imposed on unconsenting communities.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3567446-I-thought-I-couldnt-be-shocked-anymore-No-Outsiders-programme

When you look at the background to that programme, you get an insight into how an adult ideology, with harmful attitudes to girls and porn, has been allowed into schools under the banner of inclusion and diversity. It's driven a coach and horses through established safeguarding and has made teaching SRE in schools much more challenging as parents and community groups look at programmes with such suspicion, knowing what's been promoted by some.

Having said that, some of the No Outsiders programme is great - age appropriate and properly inclusive. Just like Stonewall used to produce outstanding materials for schools about homophobic bullying.
It's the pushing of queer theory, the relentless assault on girls (and boys) to abandon boundaries along with a tone deaf celebration of porn and kink that's the problem.

Some great stuff there, MrsOW. Maybe someone should ask Keir Starmer what he thinks about Queer Theory, and how it's applicable to schools.

Hmm - a man who can't / won't accurately define a woman won't have a clue about queer theory, let alone care about the impact on children.

Reading some of this now. I just don't understand how it's managed to get this far, how could people not see the clear sexualisation of children going on there?

I just don't understand how it's managed to get this far, how could people not see the clear sexualisation of children going on there?

Based on my observations, because many people outsource their Good Person programming. Leaving those with vested interests to use a sort of "This is adjacent to That, so if you support That, then it follows that you must support This" technique to piggyback all sorts of WTF into the Bundle Of Good People Beliefs.

And then people who feel it is very important to be perceived as Good People get very upset at anybody dissecting that Bundle, and will carry out all manner of cognitive dissonance, avoidance, pious fraud and aggression to defend the Bundle.

The way you put it makes it sound like the way sub-prime mortgages get bundled and sold as a package (and caused the 2008 financial crisis when they unravelled).

An apt metaphor.

the more I think about it, there is no middle ground, there's right and wrong, and if that makes me a prude, I'll take it.

I agree, pike.

As for those words upthread, I don't know what they mean either and I don't want to know.

I had no idea about this. It's shocking. Why the fuck is this being taught? Male sexuality and desires rule the roost. I am intermittently reading Penile Imperialism by Shiela Jeffreys, which is an eye opener. I don't agree with all I've read, ie her perspective.

Morning. I am slightly hesitant about this one so no problem if there is a thread consensus against posting This Sort of Thing, and I try to will do better next time. In our old place, a link like this would have been frowned out of existence and even some of the thread regulars might have said it didn’t fit within the thread’s strict limits – though that might well have been, at least in part, because of aforementioned Frowners peering in at our little Island of Sanity from their Sea of Self-righteousness. Anyway, I think it is relevant because this is a high-profile man who says he’s “they” and wears women’s clothing and the stuff in this article is just red flag after red flag (including choking, recently referred to on here), but until now he’s been on a pedestal to be saluted. So here goes:

reduxx.info/genderfluid-nuclear-hire-charged-with-felony-in-second-luggage-theft-incident/

The only reason for not posting that link here, afaik, is that there's already a thread or two about this person - here's one but I think there may have been another little earlier

LGTBQ Nation questions 'genderfluid' Brinton's conversion therapy story www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4694109-lgtbq-nation-questions-genderfluid-brintons-conversion-therapy-story

Here's another ...

Will this creep peak the USA? Sam Brinton www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4694572-will-this-creep-peak-the-usa-sam-brinton

Ta, still not used to considering the possibility of there being more than one place to dare to say anything! I shall watch those threads.

bignosebignose
This whole issue started with Stonewall's no debate and massive societal changes happening in secret "behind closed doors" without democratic scrutiny (as evidenced in the Denton's report). Women on this board (and elsewhere) have busted this issue wide open and now most of the press are full on terf, openly recording criminal acts, silencing, the harm being done to women and children like the Mermaids scandal.
It does feel uncomfortable on occasions - challenges my instinct to "be kind" - which is why we're in this mess because people hesitate to call out the outrages.
If you haven't seen it, this depressing thread "It will never happen" highlights just how extreme the problem is:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Thanks MrsO - yes I've been following this for a good few years too, though not here. That thread looks interesting, will have a gander.

Sorry - didn't mean to patronise. 😳
I never know whether someone's new to this or a seasoned resister.

Just a passing observation, but some women seem to be awfully triggering to the Right Side of History - this thread has shown tremendous levels of effort, of screeds and screeds of text, by "concerned individuals."

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4693296-kellie-jays-new-political-party?