Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

Oops! Re the optimism of my last post, I see just now on a new Keir Starmer thread in this folder (sorry I can't give a link cos I'm posting on my phone, but it's easy to find), that Labour may after all be doubling down on their previous words. I always argued that KS was no more a 'smart' politician than Corbyn, and has he yet found a way to alienate half the electorate? You could weep, but it's no joke.

I‘m not surprised. Angela Rayner has been very vocal about how hateful we all are.

Jeez. Just. Think. It. Through. You could start with the science, Angela. When medical records start being tampered with, what chaos will result? I like politicians who say what they believe, even if I disagree with them, but I find it very hard to believe that women like Rayner or Nandy really believe in what they are saying, but rather are toeing what they think to be a popularist line.

MN may need to have a look at their algorithms - I see the promoted thread currently at the top of the page is for the Good Law Project.

Surely you mean the 'Kimono-clad Fox Killer Vanity Project '?

I was out most of yesterday, have now caught up with this thread and there have been so many excellent posts.

Welcome @MotherOfCatBoy, you totally nailed it!

I was nodding vigorously to @SinnerBoy and @duc748 (and a couple of others) about being politically homeless. We've crossed swords before moto about spoiling ballots, but I hope you now understand why some of us felt we had to - I live in [what is now] a safe Labour seat (large youngish-but-not-too-young demographic), my MP is one of the hall of fame on this Twitter thread:
twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?s=20&t=ZoZp3yPG_bwOwECaT6PCAw

I will never vote Tory because they're no friend to women either (nor in fact to anybody except the super-wealthy), the LibDems are just as bad or worse, ditto the Greens (this to me is heartbreaking because the fucking planet is on fire, and instead they're obsessed with this totally anti-science anti-environment anti-reality psedoreligion, FFS). Bearing in mind that it would also be near-gnawing-off-own-legs territory for me to vote for any Brexit-apologist or anti-foreign party, that doesn't leave any real option.

@CyanCyan Your brave story about the psychiatric ward is exactly why we need safe single-sex spaces, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anybody who waves that away because of Genderism is Not A Good People.

I have nursed on exactly such a ward and now nurse on a more general ward, where everyone has a single room but each room has a shared bathroom with its neighbour, accessible from both bedrooms. I can promise you that staff are acutely aware of risks, and never leave women in a vulnerable state where someone could get access to them. I cannot speak for all hospitals but in ours, we have had these conversations at ward level and if it came to pass that someone of one sex identifying as a different sex were admitted, they would find themselves very lucky to be placed in one of the few single rooms that does not have a shared bathroom. Staffing is such that there is simply no way there would be a time when two patients would be left alone. We have had situations where some women due to the nature of their condition, have acted in a very uninhibited way, and in those cases staff have made double sure they were safe at all times.

Like I say, I cannot speak for all hospitals but in mine, conversations are being had among staff all the time about these changes and what it means for us and our duty of care.

Jeepers! There's a lot of Labour MPs who've swallowed the cool aid. I'm disappointed in Corbyn and McDonnell. The rest Don't surprise me.

Nothing new to this story. The Telegraph is just stirring. All they’ve got is a fairly bland holding line from the Labour press office. Labour are hardly going to unveil a whole new policy stance in this issue two days before Christmas.

Having said that, I’m not quite sure why Labour was whipped to vote for GRR in Scotland when “we cannot back this imperfect legislation” was a line that could have held. Maybe.

it will be interesting to see how Labour reacts to whatever the UK government does re Scotland.

I keep some hope alive but it’s going to be very, very difficult for Labour to walk back. I thought this was an interesting thread from a moderate GC Labour councillor who (I think) works in policy for the Law Society: twitter.com/elliecumbo/status/1606242620816113665?s=61&t=CYZZfz6kts4bYsGs6oTu8g

Lachlan Stuart (who used to work for Corbyn) has also tweeted interestingly about how Labour has subtlety shifted its language over the past year or so.

Well, tragically, Starmer has probably just guaranteed another 5 years of Tory rule.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11570689/Labour-war-Scotlands-new-law-changing-gender.html

Sir Keir Starmer would change the law to allow transgender people to self-identify their gender if Labour is elected, it has been revealed.

Here's the Guardian's unbalanced and entirely sycophantic view on the vote:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/23/scotlands-trans-rights-campaigners-react-to-gender-recognition-reform-bill

I really don't think this is a big enough issue to the average person for it to cause Labour to lose an election. I wish it was.

I do think they could be persuaded to change their policy if put under enough pressure.

I’m not sure if we’ve had the photo of the motley bunch of MRAs in the public gallery when MSPs were passing the gender recognition reform but here’s at least one of them:

twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1606194655879696386?s=61&t=cq7NANTzPZDBFHrUEoOeeA

@Dotellhimpike thank you for that, it’s interesting to hear how it works in other hospitals and it sounds like yours is a good one. I’ve been on two different psych wards over the years. The second one, where I spent around three weeks, was actually very good. The staff had compassion and empathy and I felt like an actual human around them. We had art therapy, music, creative writing and poetry reading sessions. There was a very unwell patient who was aggressive towards other patients, but the staff were quick to intervene. It was scary though.

The first hospital though… I barely saw a member of staff the whole time I was there (around a week, I was so desperate to leave but they saw me as a suicide risk so I got placed on two 72 hour sections). I barely ate anything as I had no idea what time meals were and nobody came to get me. Some very unwell patients were just left to wander around without a staff member in sight. A couple of patients came into my room and started looking through my things, I think they were just being friendly in an unwell kind of way but I still found it alarming.

So I think it will really depend on the hospital.

Having said that, I was in a mixed-sex residential facility as a teenager in care. I saw aggression from both males and (much less frequently) females, but it was the male aggression that was by far the most terrifying and was the type that would lead to us being locked in a room by the staff to try to keep us safe from the male running around punching through windows with a bloody fist, barking like a dog and breaking the ribs of a social worker while they waited for the police. It’s not just about the worry of rape and sexual assault, it’s not the only reason psychiatric wards are segregated. Male aggression can be absolutely terrifying and I’m cringing at the memories of these incidents even now. It’s just not appropriate to subject vulnerable females, many of whom are in hospital because they have been fucked up male violence, to these kinds of behaviours.

Excellent Janice Turner piece this morning:

Women’s rights are always fragile. Ask Afghans

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aec2c21a-82f9-11ed-933d-2ad94f4b2285?shareToken=8e1a7444e34d4b8369cfcd398536769f

"Male aggression can be absolutely terrifying and I’m cringing at the memories of these incidents even now. It’s just not appropriate to subject vulnerable females, many of whom are in hospital because they have been fucked up male violence, to these kinds of behaviours."

A decent care plan should include knowledge and understanding of a patient's background, including a history of abuse, although it shouldn't be the case a person needs a history of abuse before being protected from not just the effects but having to witness (male) aggression.

I've just watched this Mr Menno video called "What I got wrong about trans". It's the first part of a series, this one is about gender dysphoria.

This one shows how the narrative has changed from "born in the wrong body".

What does "Pov" mean? I don't speak Twit.

Point of view

Thanks, It still doesn't make sense: "Point of view you're cis and we'll beat you up for it"

The mad thing about this tweet is the "POV if you're cis", not even "GC" or "terf", they just want to threaten anyone who isn't trans.

That should read :"Point of view you're cis on #transvisibilityday and we'll beat you up for it"

@Dotellhimpike

A decent care plan should include knowledge and understanding of a patient's background, including a history of abuse, although it shouldn't be the case a person needs a history of abuse before being protected from not just the effects but having to witness (male) aggression.

What does the protection look like in a mixed-sex ward?

It’s a popular meme (?). There’s a video or a pic and someone says POV…whatever. I don’t really understand it either.

@ExiledElsie thanks for the video, I’m watching it now.

The idea is that the person looking at the photo is seeing them from the point of view of the person they are threatening. So if you are cis on TTDOV that's what you'll see.

Sorry Elsie, I know I'm being really thick but I've still only half got it. Are they saying that cis automatically equals transphobe?