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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women and girls' sex-based rights

1000 replies

StephanieSuperpowers · 25/11/2022 16:21

Well, here we are...

OP posts:
Dotellhimpike · 03/12/2022 19:17

Are threads electric?

Now I got an earworm.

MissPollysFitDolly · 03/12/2022 19:22

Please don't kill the thread, give it a more obvious title and introduction so it's clearly an omnithread for your refugee community but anyone can join in if they want.

The general threads are obviously the main source of information on any topic, this thread could never take their place. I like ExiledElsie's description of it as a 'rambling discussion', please do keep going.

Plasticfreefantastic · 03/12/2022 19:29

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/12/2022 19:03

Say less. I know you mean well, and you're trying to pour oil on troubled waters, but comparing Vest to him (I always read those posts in a male voice) is actually far more insulting than how we initially read it!

It’s not more insulting to someone who has never heard of the poster involved and who thinks, understandably, that they are being personally insulted. I thought the initial
post was totally unnecessary.

CitronVert22 · 03/12/2022 19:31

I liked this thread. In the way that immigrants from a particular country may want a space of their own sometimes in their new country. Doesn't mean you don't also integrate into the wider community - I've been posting on MN for years. I got a new name so that people would know me and because of potential for outing.
TBH, I think if people want to keep the old community they will need to set up a new place. Because otherwise people will naturally disperse over time.

Helleofabore · 03/12/2022 19:36

I think if people want to keep the old community they will need to set up a new place. Because otherwise people will naturally disperse over time.

It is the nature of the moving to a more open forum. However the thing is, using the right platform plus MN, it is possible to do both.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2022 20:52

Please don't kill the thread, give it a more obvious title and introduction so it's clearly an omnithread for your refugee community but anyone can join in if they want.

It's near the 1000 limit anyway, no point changing it now. As far as I'm concerned the 'refugees' are welcome to start another thread on FWR, continue on their Chat 'lifeboat', whatever serves. Afaik we're all interested in promoting women and girls rights and there's room for all here.
And as a somewhat separate thing, an 'omnithread' for anyone who wants it - why not, if it works it works.

IReallyLikeCrows · 03/12/2022 21:25

What is the lifeboat thread in Chat called?

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2022 21:34

IReallyLikeCrows · 03/12/2022 21:25

What is the lifeboat thread in Chat called?

Here's a link

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4686910-lifeboat-muster-point-for-talkexiles

EnjoySmile

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 03/12/2022 22:07

<refrains from ITYS re title>

Oh. Oops.

"Synthetic thread?"

One that brings multiple subjects together and lets the topics interact.

I like the individual threads for depth, but can't read the entire board so I like having a place that covers multiple topics - and often there are overlapping themes that make for interesting discussion in themselves - and points to the relevant specialist threads if they exist. Which this thread did seem to be starting to develop into before the neighbourhood watch jumped in to complain about immigrants.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2022 22:28

One that brings multiple subjects together and lets the topics interact

One on which there is synthesis. 'Synthetic thread' does sound like nylon if you're not a chemist or used to the word in it's more philosophical sense.Grin
I'm not sure how well it will work with the MN linear, non-branching format and potentially a lot of posters but it's worth trying for sure.

bignosebignose · 03/12/2022 23:15

I’ve got no deep understanding of the mysterious ways of mumsnet but the last few dozen posts have led me to a) wonder whether there is any daily limit on the posting of popcorn emojis here and b) think back to my first visit to Guardian Unlimited Talk about 20 years ago. Before I read anything over there, let alone posted, I meekly studied the board’s guidelines, feeling more and more unworthy with each line of board policy as it demanded that people stay on the very specific topic of each thread, etc.

I imagined - if I could ever summon up the courage - clicking through to a bunch of high-minded academic sorts analysing each issue within very strictly-defined, narrow parameters. Then I snuck in and found a bunch of people shouting often seemingly random (albeit usually at least A-C, A Level graded) opinions and insults at each other from various rooftops, others offering tea and biscuits to all and sundry, some discussing early generation reality TV shows in the finest ways you could ever imagine, and even a small and noble few actually staying on the very specific topic of a particular thread about the microclimate of southern Lowestoft in an average November, or whatever.

Some years later, I recall a single Presidential election thread in the USA folder on GUT racking up a quarter of a million posts at a start date-onwards rate that (IIRC) implied about one post every two minutes, 24 hours per day (but which none of the “regular” salt-of-the-earth real UK-based posters contributed to in any meaningful way, other than when it came to trying to bag post number 250,000 - a fruitless task given that deletions were allowed and posts renumbered as a result, but that’s by the by) .

Looooong posts they often were, too, some may even have been almost as long as this one. Nobody posting there could realistically have been reading them all, any more than any of you will have made it this far through this one. Maybe it was an early experiment in bots. Maybe it was just people talking past each other, at a greater speed than people normally do.

So, it takes all sorts. It appears that some people here are fine with us n00bs having a “general” women’s and girls’ rights thread and others aren’t. If a definitive decision has to be made on it, it sounds like there are better-equipped mods here than back in our old place to do that, and in the meantime we’re all real people trying to muddle along (and, as far as I can see, almost all very much on the same side of the fundamental argument when it comes to Mermaids, etc.)

Personally, I think it can be useful (generally, not just on this subject) to have summary threads as well as specific threads - some people might read each of them, some might just follow the summary (especially when it is - at least initially - a group of people who had for months been forced into a single thread on another board and are used to talking with each other in this way, rather than even being permitted to consider having a separate thread for Mermaids, a thread for women’s sports, a thread for women’s prisons, a thread for toilets, a thread for kids’ shop (Hi, Primark) changing rooms, etc.) In reality, there’s a huge amount of overlap in the key elements anyway, so there’s risk in splintering the arguments as much as there is in combining them.

No doubt as time goes on, everyone will move around other threads and I’m pretty sure we’re all already at least lurking on them, but there’s more to some conversations than anonymous words on a screen, otherwise why even bother having usernames rather than every post just being under “anonymous”? Friendship and history are part of the solidarity on this topic, and others, and I’d really miss seeing familiar “faces”if everyone e.g. changed names and vanished into multiple threads. Though I suppose some of us would recognise each other before too long.

I’m relieved and grateful to have been able to regroup here last weekend at basically zero notice though we would have found another way if we’d had to because the Wrong Side of History is nothing if not resourceful. So, thanks to those who have welcomed us, from those who still think this thread (v2, v3, etc.) is okay to keep to those who think we should bin it after a week and to everyone in between. This is indeed a very big site, so hopefully there’s plenty of room for everyone, and it’s been great to see people engaging with us. While I really want to continue to see the familiar names on my screen, it’s honestly a breath of fresh air to see new (to me) pro-women&children/ GC names too.

TL;DR. Gametes.

Dotellhimpike · 03/12/2022 23:24

You utter utter completely reasonable bastard.

CyanCyan · 03/12/2022 23:43

<puts down popcorn, applauds loudly>

ErrolTheDragon · 04/12/2022 00:04

I’ve got no deep understanding of the mysterious ways of mumsnet but the last few dozen posts have led me to a) wonder whether there is any daily limit on the posting of popcorn emojis here and b) think back to my first visit to Guardian Unlimited Talk about 20 years ago. Before I read anything over there, let alone posted, I meekly studied the board’s guidelines, feeling more and more unworthy with each line of board policy as it demanded that people stay on the very specific topic of each thread, etc.

You can make a thread entirely of emojis if you want Grin (though the MN emoticons are sometimes better, I've never found a match for the grumpy little Hmm. And we have Gin)

I'm just trying to think if there's any mysteries worth knowing about before this thread hits the buffers....

One is that if anyone wants a really quiet corner for a thread, there's the OTBT (off the beaten track) board which doesn't appear in active convos and doesn't get picked up by search engines. Threads there only last 30 days though.
Oh, and 'cunty types' isn't a derogatory term on this board (as in, 'old fashioned cunty type'...applies to nearly everyone on FWR . Obv not the sprinkling of male allies...) I noticed it used negatively way upthread and it confused me for a moment.Grin

Re moderation, its generally light. If you see anything against guidelines (eg personal attacks, homophobia,racism) then report. The mods aren't on duty 24/7 so late at night problems need to also be logged on The Night Watch board, where the volunteer 'night watch' can hide posts/threads.

If you've suggestions for improving the interface, or find bugs, or have questions around policy or moderation, post on Site Stuff.
Links to petitions are only allowed on the Petitions and Activism board - worth checking regularly. There's a specific board for surveys too. Fundraising links aren't allowed - give a phrase for people to google (supporting feminist causes is known here as gardening or digging).

That's all I can think of, hope it helps.

bignosebignose · 04/12/2022 00:21

Heh, that reminds me, I was thinking earlier when someone linked to a thread started by this OP, that HoofWankingSpangleCunt is one of the top ten most eye-catching usernames I can ever remember from anywhere, and I’m also very much struggling to recall any of the other nine. Thanks ETD, Night all.

Dotellhimpike · 04/12/2022 00:25

I like the name ErrolTheDragon , it makes me want to change my username to DaveTheOwl or SteveThePenguin

CyanCyan · 04/12/2022 00:27

bignosebignose · 04/12/2022 00:21

Heh, that reminds me, I was thinking earlier when someone linked to a thread started by this OP, that HoofWankingSpangleCunt is one of the top ten most eye-catching usernames I can ever remember from anywhere, and I’m also very much struggling to recall any of the other nine. Thanks ETD, Night all.

I also noticed this username and enjoyed it so much I repeated it to a friend.

duc748 · 04/12/2022 00:40

Awesome post, bnbn.

Helleofabore · 04/12/2022 06:28

I like the individual threads for depth, but can't read the entire board so I like having a place that covers multiple topics - and often there are overlapping themes that make for interesting discussion in themselves - and points to the relevant specialist threads if they exist.

The number of new threads on this board per day isn’t many unless something there are announcements or court cases. It really is not that busy.

And FWIW, the individual threads will generally have plenty of discussion around many topics and be constantly pulling in new facets of the discussion. Sometimes simultaneously having narrow and very broad conversations about the topic of the thread at the very same time. One that constantly refers to other threads and overlapping issue and pulls everything together while keeping roughly on topic.

People who post on this board are very human and come from a very wide assortment of backgrounds and experiences so, of course, individual threads reflect this.

Perhaps there is a perception that the threads are rigidly structured?

Because while some are, I would say most are not by nature.

And beverages, refreshments and flowers are very regularly applied on this board. The only emoji you have to watch is the biscuit emoji. Biscuit

Some of us have been deleted for that symbol.

Kucingsparkles · 04/12/2022 07:04

Good post, BNBN.

I would say, on the side of posters who are displeased by this thread, that the whole of MN is frequently subject to weird trolls and attention-seeking-shit-stirrers; FWR in particular has really weird trolls and extremely persistent attention-seeking shit-stirrers, obsessively-reporting monitors and the most performatively-performative sea-lions I've ever seen. Some truly fine MNers, who were so effectively championing women's and children's rights, have been banned as casualties of these Right Side of History bad actors.

I think that this results is a natural suspicion of unfamiliar usernames and threads. And certainly even on this thread, amongst the names I recognise ("old" and "new") there have been some unfamiliar names making shit-stirring posts which I suspect are capitalising on the confusion in the hopes of getting rid of more posters, or at least making anybody who is a shy lurker feel like they are not welcome to post.

Anyway, this thread is nearly done. If anybody wants to start a new "general meandering discussion" thread, I would find that enjoyable. If anybody doesn't, I've managed fine without one on MN thus far. Basically, whatevs.

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 04/12/2022 07:41

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 03/12/2022 22:07

<refrains from ITYS re title>

Oh. Oops.

"Synthetic thread?"

One that brings multiple subjects together and lets the topics interact.

I like the individual threads for depth, but can't read the entire board so I like having a place that covers multiple topics - and often there are overlapping themes that make for interesting discussion in themselves - and points to the relevant specialist threads if they exist. Which this thread did seem to be starting to develop into before the neighbourhood watch jumped in to complain about immigrants.

This in spades. I've been on Mumsnet Talk for years, posting a bit but mostly lurking. I changed my name so people from the Old Place knew who I was. I agree we need to change the header in the next thread, but can see no reason why we shouldn't continue our mini discussions here as well as on other threads if that's what we want. It's not harming anybody else, and we're used to doing it. I have to say I don't recognise the names of the thread police from other FWR discussions...

ArabellaScott · 04/12/2022 08:29

Dotellhimpike · 03/12/2022 23:24

You utter utter completely reasonable bastard.

Might work better than insulting women on the feminist board, frankly.

BettyFilous · 04/12/2022 08:31

Tricyrtis2022 · 03/12/2022 16:19

Could you possibly think of it as a bunch of people trying to find their feet?

This, entirely this.

You have to consider that some people will not leave the other board immediately, feeling an attachment and thinking that it outweighs their disgust at recent events. They may also peel away over the coming weeks once they realise the rupture has changed things permanently. It’s only been a week or so for our new arrivals. Personally I don’t have a problem with a muster point before our new arrivals get established and disperse across our boards. I don’t imagine it will be needed long term. Perhaps it just needs more clearly labelled in the title and OP to avoid confusion.

ArabellaScott · 04/12/2022 08:34

I think you just need to have either a muster thread that's for specific people or a 'general' thread that's for everyone. Otherwise you get a weird hybrid beast that doesn't quite fulfill either function.

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