Friend is now trans and i'm confused

[wizzywascal]

Hello! I have NC'd for this but a regular poster. This is my first time posting on FWR though.

I've followed the dialogue on Trans rights closely since noticing the arrival of gender neutral loos. And a particularly traumatic experience in such a loo at a popular bar that required me to walk past a working men's urinal to get to cubicles. There's also been a few times i've had to touch up my lipstick and brush my hair in shared mirrors with some strange guy next to me. Nothing untoward has ever happened, but it has felt uncomfortable.

Recently a close friend of DP has come out as a trans woman and it has really made me question what it means. For context - she is 34 and has cross dressed publicly since uni. But also maintained a big beard, did beer cruises with the lads and has a long term gf, so it just seemed like a straight man who enjoyed cross dressing. There was never any gender confusion expressed and she always seemed happy with the status quo.

She started at a new company just before the pandemic with a very active LGBTQIA community and befriended the founder who wasn't trans (gay) but extremely passionate about the cause, to the point of seeming fanatical. I mean the first time I met him, within 5 mins he launched into tirade over the issue and it came up pretty much every time we saw him even without asking. Friend then went very quiet over the lockdowns and we didn't hear from her much until she popped up on social media with a long post about how she had changed her name by deed poll to start her new identity as a woman. It went on to say how she'd always wondered about her identity but was never sure, but the lockdowns gave her time to think and she realised she identifies as a woman. Regarding transition - she ranted on long wait time for NHS HRT (she is well off and could afford private but isn't considering it for some reason) and that she'd done extensive laser treatments. She's still with her gf (who identifies as straight as far as I know).

Anyway, we've seen her since and initially outside a curiosity as to what promoted the sudden change I didn't pay much heed. However, the first time she came with me to the toilets was a huge shock. She has also gotten very vocal in the community and it's led to some awkward conversations between us. Because to her, she and I are the same, but to me outside of wearing female clothing (which she did even as a man) and having a female name, she's biologically still a woman. I asked her how she knew she was meant to be a woman if she's never been one. And she said she just felt wrong being a man. And this is where I get confused. Growing up as a child in a foreign country I always felt like I didn't fit in with home culture, and identified more with the American culture I saw on TV. But I didn't think I was American. Nor could I have just become one by changing my name. Or DP loves rap music but couldn't just identify as black without uproar.

There's also the issue that she isn't considering transitioning. So it feels like the only thing she really knows and feels about being a woman are the clothing and a higher pitch of speech - which she could have done, and did do, even as a man without any judgement. Nothing else in her life has changed. She still has sex as a man, pees as a man, has male hormones, has the height/muscle of a man (is 6ft 3 and well built) and has spent 34 years enjoying all the privileges of a white, middle class CIS man. But we are now supposed to share the same intimate spaces, and she talks to me as if her life and campaign is harder than mine as a BAME, immigrant woman and honestly I don't know what to think.

It's at a point where I find it stressful meeting her as I don't understand what is going on. It's the first time I've felt like being a woman is now just a label any man can adopt with no entry criteria and that's made my own identity feel de-valued. I'm also worried how far reaching this will be as I see gender neutral changing space and toilets pop up everywhere including schools. I do think her very vocal friend may have convinced her she was trans, as she was isolated at the time and spent most of her time with him. It's a very sudden and drastic turn and I do know she's ASD and will fixate obsessively on perfecting something once she discovers it. As an example she discovered darts, and would spend 4-5 hours every day, and all weekend to get good at it at the same place. Read up extensively etc. This carried on for 6 years until they moved. It's been like this with board games etc too. So I have wondered how much of this is because she's now discovered the trans community. All speculation though and not my place to analyse tbh. Just adding context as to why it's made me question whether it should be this easy to become a woman, as the ramifications for everyone are serious.

Any advice on how to deal with this, so I can spend time with her and be supportive or at least better manage my own confused feelings on the matter?

What does that actually mean? I'm guessing nothing at all.

As a feminist you support bringing men into womens spaces? That's not very feminist.

The single female should self-ID as a transman and propose sharing with the non-boundry crossing bloke (who won't like it but obviously hasn't raised a concern about the current status quo so see how he likes it).

I predict the transwoman will have a tantrum.

Then of course the single female should cancel becuase they've all shown they don't give a fuck about her and are not her friends.

Yes to this.

You @wizzywascal and the others in your friend group are no fucking friend to this single female at all. You whinge about her cancelling because of increased costs, you are too spineless to step up and support her, you are happy to dismiss her discomfort in favour of your male friend. All smacks of Well, let her be uncomfortable and unhappy so male friend is happy and we don't have to pay extra. What a despicable bunch you are.

Women and indeed men like you and your friends pandering around and not being straight with your male friend regarding the discomfort caused by their sharing of spaces with females is one of the reasons we have ended up in this mess where women are self excluding from the very spaces and services that were designed for their use.

Even if your male friend has a GRC that does NOT entitle them to full, unfettered access to female spaces.

If proof were ever needed as to just how selfish and self entitled this entire ideology is look no further than your male friend they give no consideration whatsoever to anyone's feelings, needs, wants or wishes bar their own. MRA on crack.

It's just meaningless shite @TheGoodFighter but the person saying it obviously thinks it sounds good and they think they can shine in the glow of their trite, vacuous, virtue signalling bollocks. It's about as meaningful and worthy a statement as when a Miss World contestant used to say they would use their reign as Miss World to end poverty and bring about world peace.

Do you really need to have this spelled out for you?

Firstly, by recognising that the privilege exists and then refusing to use it, or at least trying to minimise the impact it has on womens lives.

So not expecting access to places where male bodies are not welcome. So not using their male body advantages of size and strength in women’s sports, or to hurt women. By acknowledging that their experience of being male is not the same as a woman’s experience of being female.

Thanks for responses. It's helped me make sense of some of my own feelings on the matter.

Regarding single female friend, I agree it's unfair and wrong to force her into this situation. However, she has confided this to me privately and doesn't want the others to know how I feel (other than DP). I'm the relatively new outsider to this group of friends so I guess enough removed to be neutral. It's why DP suggested the siblings sharing because single female friend didn't want trans friend to feel like she's been ostracised by having to sleep alone (with DP sharing with single male friend and me sharing with her). The logic makes no sense to me as surely anyone wants their own room!! But all this pussyfooting is because of how emotionally charged the whole issue is and how no one wants to upset the siblings. DP has tried and they don't listen.

Female friend has not pulled out yet from trip so we are weighing up what we do.

DP has said he feels this friendship is completely different to what it used to be. And it's like the personality has changed so much regardless of their identity, to something more self absorbed. I use 'she' as I wanted to be respectful of her journey. I never thought she'd lose empathy for others in the process. And it's confusing, sad and difficult - without resources available to support the friends and family other than saying you need to put their feelings first always.

@wizzywascal speak to female friend again. Ask her what she'd ideally want to do, and ask if she is comfortable with you guys bringing it up.

Don't tie yourself into pretzels over trans person feeling lonely. He can share with his friend, same as he always has.

But you cannot be Switzerland in this. You either let down female friend who has done nothing wrong except wanting to sleep safely in her bed on the holiday she has paid for, or hurt the feelings of a bloke who wears dresses and wants to share with a woman despite having a girlfriend. On paper it's a bit of a no brainer, but I guess in person it's more nuanced.

*he

A friend of mine moved to America several years ago and became involved with a group who frequented Renaissance Fairs. He started dressing up in the garb, then taking more of it into his real life. He changes his name to one linked with the Renaissance period, named his new baby accordingly, decorated his house in relevant garb etc. On nights out, he would bring a tankard and insist that the bar person served his drink in that.

This went on for a few years, and then he discovered pirate cosplay and the whole thing happened again- more outfits, a name change, started speaking like Jack Sparrow.

From a quick look at his Facebook, he seems to now be more into some kind of a Steampunk theme.

He’s a lovely person but loves the attention.

Sorry, I do not believe that a man can possibly recognise precisely what is the privilege that comes from being brought up male in a male body, and even if a man could he would be unable to "not use" that privilege.

My entire point is that you cannot opt out of privilege, a man always has male privilege, or at the very least the psychological benefits of male privilege he enjoyed earlier in his life.

Not trampling over women's rights should be a given, and a man, however he identifies, still has male privilege even if he chooses not to use it to impose himself unwanted on women's space.

This ski trip is the situation that may bring the friendship group to an end, and everyone will have to pick a side.
Support the single female and insist she gets her own room, or cancel the trip.
I would refuse to go if the group doesn’t give her the room. Tbh I would have left the group by now anyway …

You obviously have felt uncomfortable for a while and have been walking on eggshells and using the pronouns blah blah blah but this is gaslighting a whole group!
Your social life has become a validation of someone’s fetish!

Think about long term … what about when some of you have children? Are you going to tell your child to go against their eyes and instinct and use a pronoun that’s not correct? Better to sort this out now and refuse to go along with the facade any more.

Also I wonder how friends GF feels about him actively choosing to share a room with a single female, rather than his male friend he shared with previously?

Well, she's just another woman isn't she? Her thoughts, feelings, needs, wants and wishes are irrelevant it's all about the male.

I'm afraid you're just seeing first hand the realities of this ideology. You use 'she' for this person out of respect, yet he is showing absolutely no respect for you or the group.

Your single female friend has confided in you privately of her discomfort, but she doesn't feel she can say anything because of an entitled man. Neither do you. Why is that, I wonder?

What should have happened, and needs to happen, is the group should forget about the 'trans' aspect and deal with the situation in the same way as they would if they were allocating rooms according to sex. The group should absolutely refuse to countenance the idea that is ok that a woman should have to share a room with a man. If the man doesn't like that, the man should be cancelling. This is what would happen in every other scenario ever, but the brainwashing and bullying by the trans lobby has been so successful because no one stands up to it.

Challenge poor behaviour. It's not a personal attack, it's about behaviour.

It's not against the law to correctly sex another human where privacy, dignity and safety are important.

The most important thing to remember here is that you're under no obligation to support or validate this transvestite. They're not a woman, they're a man dressing up as a woman (and, incidentally, mocking and dismissing your own lived experience of being female). Remember this - they're not brave or stunning or even widening the bandwidth of what a woman is and you don't have to go along with it. They're a man in a dress. That's all. They're no different to anyone else with mental problems who chooses to dress up to 'validate' themselves.

And don't be frightened. The vast majority of people in this country don't believe that trans lie. Oh, they'll pay lip-service to it to be polite or because they're scared of the backlash, but you can rest assured that they're looking at this pathetic man and his ilk and thinking 'You're a fucking man. Not a woman. Not a 'trans' woman, whatever that is'.

The current Mermaids kerfuffle shows how identity politics is a magnet for sexual deviants and abusive men and the tide is turning - away from genderwoo bullshit and back to sanity. Don't believe me? Outside of the London media bubble, people are laughing at this bullshit and its proponents and treating it with the contempt it deserves. And in the future, everyone will look back on the past few years and think 'What the fuck?'

I would not wish to remain friends with someone who displays such bullying, bulldozing ways and seeks attention at the expense of others around him. Especially women.

Same. It sounds as if at least three people in the group don't want to entertain this person's delusions or continue the friendship (including the OP's husband) so why pander to him and coerce your poor friend into sharing a bedroom with him rather than simply end the friendship now?

I've been feeling cross for months. But repressed it. Because it feels like having any opinion or feeling other than 100% acceptance gets shot down. It feels quite lonely to challenge this and I've spent a lot of time wondering if I'm being unreasonable. It's nice to know others see where I'm coming from. I live and work in an environment where my feelings seem to be in the minority or at least that's how it seems on social media.

Dear Op,
I understand you and your DP have tried to be sensitive but what you describe with the trans friend's personality change is an all too familiar phenomenon and happens particularly with those men - the so-called "transbians", intact beardy blokes who wear dresses with no seeming dysphoria but once 'trans' identified display a very masculine sense of entitlement. The single female needs support to speak up - you and your dp have to explicitly commit to this support even if the group breaks up. Families and friends break up all the time when someone abuses trust. The trans friend and his brother are the ones abusing this trust. If the rest of the group cannot see this, they are enablers and would you really want to holiday with this bunch?

OP From your latest update, it does seem that even your DP is feeling like the relationship has run its course.

I don't think your DP will ever get his relationship back with that mate. And if that means losing the relationship with the brother too, well that is sad.

However, it may be the end of the skiing trips as a group. I cannot imagine that you will feel comfortable with this mate being there if they know that you told the single female that you would support her cancelling. But they might not hold the grudge.

Either way, your group dynamic has changed and even your DP recognises this. Sadly, if the siblings won't listen to him, they are certainly not going to listen to the single female and may well ostracise her for mentioning it. But she will need to stand up for herself and say she is not comfortable sharing with anyone with a penis. Full stop.

@wizzywascal yes so much of this has been thrust on us we start doubting our own logic.

At DSs school a "transboy" is now getting changed in the boys changing rooms.Thankfully not when my DS 16 has been there. But it bewilders me how the school cannot recognise this as the huge safe guarding issue it is. If DS was involved I'd be contacting them directly to tell them how inappropriate and unsafe this is for everyone. I have great sympathy for the person and believe they are getting egged on by their DM, but I will not have my DS put in a position where he feels uncomfortable in his own gender changing rooms and they all lay themselves open for abuse allegations as technically she is still a girl.

Have you any idea how many people have been banned from twitter and the like for posting basic scientific reality? Have you any idea how many people are fearful of a backlash?

You are not in the minority.

See how many stright men you know who would considering dating a trans woman (pre or post op)? IMHO the answer is zero by definition, but even if we assume that a straight man can have gay sex with a trans woman and still be straight then that doesn't alter the fact that none of your straight male friends will date this "woman" however much they say TWAW.

I wouldn't blame OP for deciding that she never wants to see TW and brother and anyone else on the men's rights sides of this again, even if they were to turn around later today and apologise for even suggesting the TW shared with the single woman in the first place.

I'd also love to know how this TW's girlfriend is dealing with the lack of intercourse since this man became a woman - I mean, no-one who claims to be a woman could possibly use their penis for sex without being massively triggered,, surely?

Well I agree with you, you can’t opt out of male privilege completely, just as you can’t opt out of the physical changes that puberty , male or female, makes on a human body.

I think however that you can, if you want to , understand how male privilege affects others and try to mitigate its impact rather than either ignoring its existence or riding roughshod over other peoples rights , safety and preferences.

Sadly for whatever reasons the current crop of transwomen seem in the large part unwilling to recognise how their life choices ( and I use that term deliberately because for many I believe it it is a choice) impacts on womens protected rights ,safety and well-being.