Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Friend is now trans and i'm confused

202 replies

wizzywascal · 05/10/2022 08:40

Hello! I have NC'd for this but a regular poster. This is my first time posting on FWR though.

I've followed the dialogue on Trans rights closely since noticing the arrival of gender neutral loos. And a particularly traumatic experience in such a loo at a popular bar that required me to walk past a working men's urinal to get to cubicles. There's also been a few times i've had to touch up my lipstick and brush my hair in shared mirrors with some strange guy next to me. Nothing untoward has ever happened, but it has felt uncomfortable.

Recently a close friend of DP has come out as a trans woman and it has really made me question what it means. For context - she is 34 and has cross dressed publicly since uni. But also maintained a big beard, did beer cruises with the lads and has a long term gf, so it just seemed like a straight man who enjoyed cross dressing. There was never any gender confusion expressed and she always seemed happy with the status quo.

She started at a new company just before the pandemic with a very active LGBTQIA community and befriended the founder who wasn't trans (gay) but extremely passionate about the cause, to the point of seeming fanatical. I mean the first time I met him, within 5 mins he launched into tirade over the issue and it came up pretty much every time we saw him even without asking. Friend then went very quiet over the lockdowns and we didn't hear from her much until she popped up on social media with a long post about how she had changed her name by deed poll to start her new identity as a woman. It went on to say how she'd always wondered about her identity but was never sure, but the lockdowns gave her time to think and she realised she identifies as a woman. Regarding transition - she ranted on long wait time for NHS HRT (she is well off and could afford private but isn't considering it for some reason) and that she'd done extensive laser treatments. She's still with her gf (who identifies as straight as far as I know).

Anyway, we've seen her since and initially outside a curiosity as to what promoted the sudden change I didn't pay much heed. However, the first time she came with me to the toilets was a huge shock. She has also gotten very vocal in the community and it's led to some awkward conversations between us. Because to her, she and I are the same, but to me outside of wearing female clothing (which she did even as a man) and having a female name, she's biologically still a woman. I asked her how she knew she was meant to be a woman if she's never been one. And she said she just felt wrong being a man. And this is where I get confused. Growing up as a child in a foreign country I always felt like I didn't fit in with home culture, and identified more with the American culture I saw on TV. But I didn't think I was American. Nor could I have just become one by changing my name. Or DP loves rap music but couldn't just identify as black without uproar.

There's also the issue that she isn't considering transitioning. So it feels like the only thing she really knows and feels about being a woman are the clothing and a higher pitch of speech - which she could have done, and did do, even as a man without any judgement. Nothing else in her life has changed. She still has sex as a man, pees as a man, has male hormones, has the height/muscle of a man (is 6ft 3 and well built) and has spent 34 years enjoying all the privileges of a white, middle class CIS man. But we are now supposed to share the same intimate spaces, and she talks to me as if her life and campaign is harder than mine as a BAME, immigrant woman and honestly I don't know what to think.

It's at a point where I find it stressful meeting her as I don't understand what is going on. It's the first time I've felt like being a woman is now just a label any man can adopt with no entry criteria and that's made my own identity feel de-valued. I'm also worried how far reaching this will be as I see gender neutral changing space and toilets pop up everywhere including schools. I do think her very vocal friend may have convinced her she was trans, as she was isolated at the time and spent most of her time with him. It's a very sudden and drastic turn and I do know she's ASD and will fixate obsessively on perfecting something once she discovers it. As an example she discovered darts, and would spend 4-5 hours every day, and all weekend to get good at it at the same place. Read up extensively etc. This carried on for 6 years until they moved. It's been like this with board games etc too. So I have wondered how much of this is because she's now discovered the trans community. All speculation though and not my place to analyse tbh. Just adding context as to why it's made me question whether it should be this easy to become a woman, as the ramifications for everyone are serious.

Any advice on how to deal with this, so I can spend time with her and be supportive or at least better manage my own confused feelings on the matter?

OP posts:
swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:19

I hope the single female wises up pretty fucking quickly to how little everyone genuinely cares about her as a human being, how incredibly lopsided her so-called friendships are and she cancels and uses the money she saves to join some clubs where she will develop some mutually respectful friendships.

Because she's being used as a service human here.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 05/10/2022 10:19

@Eeksteek How does an adult give up the privilege of having been bought up male in a male body?

SilverCatStripes · 05/10/2022 10:20

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 05/10/2022 10:05

As a feminist I support bringing all marginalised of communities into my circle of care.

Feminism is about seeking equality for Females . All females, of all races, class, religion, political affiliation.

You can support whichever “marginalised community” you wish, but you that isn’t anything to do with feminism.

Buzzinwithbez · 05/10/2022 10:23

I know this isn't the main point, but it is a way transwomen slip under the radar - by referring to themselves - fully grown adults as transgirls. "Girl's night out", "All girls together" etc...
Using accurate language is important, I feel. The woman this person is asking to share with a fully grown woman too, not a girl (thankfully).

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:25

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 05/10/2022 10:05

As a feminist I support bringing all marginalised of communities into my circle of care.

If you want to spend your time looking after everyone else then that's up to you.

But I think you're a bit confused about what feminism is.

A lot of it is about women being seen as actual humans worthy of human rights, having the right to free speech, autonomy, and the right to say 'no' to men and not just service humans to the other 50% of the population.

Frankly, I have two children to look after and volunteer in roles that involve helping children - I have some mutually respectful friendships where the help and care given is two way (obviously it varies over time but very much give and take in the long term) and I used financial resources to donate to charities - mostly women's and children's rights here and abroad - but beyond that I'm tapped out. And that's ok, because I have human rights and am not just a service human to men's needs and desires.

KnickerlessParsons · 05/10/2022 10:26

You could tell your friend that if "she" really thinks like a woman then "she" would understand the concerns of the single real woman and go and share with the man.

If it's ok for a real woman to share with a man, then ipso facto, it's ok for a trans woman to share with a man.

newrubylane · 05/10/2022 10:26

Just on the holiday accommodation - of trans friend is now sharing with single woman, is single man on is own? If there's trans friend, a single man and a single woman, plus X number of couples, then presumably someone is sleeping alone? So you share with single woman, your DP shares with single man and trans friend gets their own room? Is that not workable?

ImherewithBoudica · 05/10/2022 10:28

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 05/10/2022 10:05

As a feminist I support bringing all marginalised of communities into my circle of care.

As a member of several of those communities I'm going to say a polite 'er no thanks', as that sounds creepy in a Lady Bountiful kind of way.

OP, if a friendship is not reciprocal, if it takes without giving, if your friend does not have the same care for you and your needs and feelings as they expect you to show them, then it's not a friendship. Boundaries are your best bet here, and put them up as discreetly as need be.

BridasShieldWall · 05/10/2022 10:31

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:19

I hope the single female wises up pretty fucking quickly to how little everyone genuinely cares about her as a human being, how incredibly lopsided her so-called friendships are and she cancels and uses the money she saves to join some clubs where she will develop some mutually respectful friendships.

Because she's being used as a service human here.

Completely agree with this.

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:33

newrubylane · 05/10/2022 10:26

Just on the holiday accommodation - of trans friend is now sharing with single woman, is single man on is own? If there's trans friend, a single man and a single woman, plus X number of couples, then presumably someone is sleeping alone? So you share with single woman, your DP shares with single man and trans friend gets their own room? Is that not workable?

Of course it's workable but it requires everyone to acknowledge that single female friend isn't just a prop for male desires so......

And of course it may be that the trans friend wants validation more than comfort for everyone.

OP if you do end up sharing with single female friend then I'd lock your door if you can. When someone shows you they give no shits about your boundaries, believe them.

SlipperyLizard · 05/10/2022 10:36

As others have said, it is clear that the whole friendship group knows this person is still a man, as otherwise they wouldn’t be pandering to him and making your poor single friend share a room with him.

OP, you need to do whatever is needed to support your single friend and stop accepting the gaslighting from this man. He is not being “kind” or a good friend, so why should you be?

Helleofabore · 05/10/2022 10:36

HipTightOnions · 05/10/2022 10:08

Spiffing.

So who do you think should share the bedroom?

I am waiting for Slouching's answer.

I mean, what type of 'feminist' would advocate that a single female be coerced into sharing accommodation with a male person she was uncomfortable with?

Please Slouching, instead of a drive by virtue signal, maybe engage with the topic with some of your feminist wisdom.

Lovelyricepudding · 05/10/2022 10:39

But but but... what about the pillow fights whilst wearing neglige that girls always have at sleepovers?

GCAcademic · 05/10/2022 10:44

Hello @SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain

I assume that you have well-considered views on this issue, rather than simply having plopped onto the thread to signal your progressive credentials?

Could you let us know whether you believe that the single female should be expected (against her discomfort) to share a bedroom with a woman with a penis and beard who is attracted to female people? If she doesn't like this set up, presumably that is her problem and she should drop out of the holiday and lose the money she's paid?

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:45

Lovelyricepudding · 05/10/2022 10:39

But but but... what about the pillow fights whilst wearing neglige that girls always have at sleepovers?

Shudder.

Whichwhatnow · 05/10/2022 11:20

Ohhh the room sharing is reminding me of an incident with my lesbian transwoman neighbour. She was attending an event with another gay (not trans) woman and was boasting to us that not only had she persuaded said woman to share a room, but that she had 'accidentally' booked a double rather than twin room. Her words were, and I quote - "well, we'll just see what might happen between us! You know us girls, we know how to get what we want, eh?" - directed at me 😕. This is a fully intact, bearded, hairy chested male (albeit wearing a low cut sparkly mini dress...).

I've written about transwoman neighbour before but this is far from the first time that she has used her status as a 'woman' to lure other women into a kind of false sense of security while in reality just wanting to have sex with them - e.g. 'girly' pyjama parties/getting ready for 'girls' nights' including getting changed together etc etc. She also seems to think that any woman who is bi or lesbian should automatically be willing to sleep with her. It's grim.

Not saying that this is what your friend is doing of course, but it's worth being a little bit vigilant...

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/10/2022 11:32

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 10:19

I hope the single female wises up pretty fucking quickly to how little everyone genuinely cares about her as a human being, how incredibly lopsided her so-called friendships are and she cancels and uses the money she saves to join some clubs where she will develop some mutually respectful friendships.

Because she's being used as a service human here.

So many good points - this one particularly.

I'm afraid OP you're going to have to decide - either allow this person to continue to gaslight and trash your friendship group OR stand up for your woman friend and find a work around that doesn't mean her privacy, dignity and potential safety are sacrificed for his personal validation. It will be uncomfortable but hopefully there's enough clear information on here to help you.

DameHelena · 05/10/2022 11:48

the girl can't cancel as it would mean increased costs for everyone else

Fuck em. She should cancel and let everyone else suck up the increased costs. I wonder how kind they'd all feel like being faced with a holiday that was suddenly 20% (or whatever) more expensive?
As for a rift, well I guess you'll all find out who your real friends are.

AtrociousCircumstance · 05/10/2022 11:51

Yes she should feel totally supported in cancelling.

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 11:53

This thread is really illuminating about how real women are just expected to put up with male shit, and of course how transwomen act even less like women than normal blokes.

The entitled narcissism is off the scale.

It's the opposite of how real women are supposed to behave. The XX single female it's automatically assumed should ignore her need to feel safe in her own accommodation on a holiday she's paid for because the male's validation and boundary crossing triumph comes first and everyone just puts up with it. Similarly, she's supposed to suck up a miserable holiday (at best - I'm personally assuming more boundary crossing will follow on the basis of my lived experience of male pattern behaviour) just so no-one else is inconvenienced by higher costs. And this is on a holiday with supposed friends. Well, with friends like these you sure as hell don't need enemies.

And they say feminism isn't needed any more. The MRAs have really done a number on everyone with the new sparkly type of male that women can't say no to.

swordfishspoons · 05/10/2022 11:59

I mean let's all just think about a scenario about where one woman wanted to share with another but the other didn't want to share - and here there isn't even the same safety issue or typical male pattern behaviour or - let's face it - penis.

Think about the likely range of behaviours you'd get from your female friends around this. At worst there'd be a bit of huffing and bitching from the one being rejected, but I don't know a single woman who'd force another woman to share accommodation in this scenario if the other woman was uncomfortable doing so. Not a single one.

Helleofabore · 05/10/2022 12:02

As for a rift, well I guess you'll all find out who your real friends are.

I think that OP will already find that there is a rift. Created by this transitioned male forcing their demands onto the females in the group.

The woman cancelling will not 'cause' a rift. It is merely a symptom.

Tallisker · 05/10/2022 12:06

I think if I were the single woman I'd rather share with the other single bloke. He's given no indication that he's a boundary-transgressor, unlike the newly trans person, so I'd probably feel safer with him.

Of course I wouldn't, I'd cancel, and I'd also be reconsidering my friendship group who would treat me so appallingly.

Did you name change halfway through, Op, then change back? I'm a bit confused about where the ski chalet accommodation story came from.

Baldieheid · 05/10/2022 12:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This. In spades.

Run.

And get yourself and this other girl out of that ski trip.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 05/10/2022 12:08

I would cool the friendship. You can feel sorry for her but you don't have to socialise with her and I wouldn't. The reasons why don't matter.

Can you drop out of the holiday? This group is being bent out of shape by the needs of one person with no regard for anyone else. And by her brother's enabing of what is a potentially manipulative / abusive situation.

The girl can't cancel as it would mean increased costs for everyone else, and would make her unease at the situation obvious - prob cause a huge rift in the group too as brother is very protective of trans friend.

Can you all cancel? Or if not, I would pay full whack myself just to not go on this holiday.