Primark to reinstate women and girls only changing rooms

[Handyweatherstation]

They may be starting to get the message.

corporate.primark.com/en/newsroom/corporate-news/important-changes-to-our-fitting-rooms-in-the-uk/n/98cec44a-542f-40b9-8a88-618831aeddc0

I think the only way anyone can feel safe is to do away with changing rooms all together instead have rows of changing booths with a ceiling and full height lockable door. Booths that are visible to the stores customers not tucked away in a corner.

Is TopShop still mixed sex?

Or maybe an endless procession of GC feminists into Primark shops asking to speak to the manager and politely and firmly seeking clarification about the new policy. It's easy for the head office Twitter account idiot to obfuscate and ignore the situation, but a headache for frontline staff if enough people raise the issue in person.

FWIW, my nearest shop is the one in Cambridge where the poor young woman who started the latest problems for the chain had her horrible experiences.

I thought it was only internet now, part of asos maybe?

I think the only way anyone can feel safe is to do away with changing rooms all together instead have rows of changing booths with a ceiling and full height lockable door. Booths that are visible to the stores customers not tucked away in a corner.

This, 100%, all day long. Does away with the "what is a woman" and "how can you tell" handwringing and neutralises everything. Secure, safe private, not easy for somebody to corner another person in, or to spy.

Costs more money though, which is why stores don't tend to go for it 😏

Thanks.

A problem for people with epilepsy or who suddenly collapse when locked inside, though.

That is a great idea. Will put that to my local group and we can all head in 10 mins apart!

Designated men's fitting rooms have always been a place to masturbate in, or to shit or piss in (that happens in women's too) given the opportunity...people (paying customers) can be vile, but you can't always tell by looking unfortunately, same as to what they keep in their pants. There is no easy answer or 100pc safe place. There has been a big emphasis on trans women but it works both ways..a person wanting to try on men's clothes on a men's floor or vice versa..put yourself in the position of the person running the fitting room...nobody is forced to try on in store there is a 28 day returns policy to counteract this. Some towns are more inclusive than others let's be honest, the customer base can be quite different, as can the staff mix. Primark has an inclusive culture..judging people's morals on their appearance is frowned upon.

‘..nobody is forced to try on in store there is a 28 day returns policy to counteract this.‘

That’s not much help if you don’t live in the town but some distance away with bad and expensive public transport- a trip to town is a luxury you don’t get too often. Where I am it would cost £13 for the bus ride to return something, hence it’s quite important to get it right first time.

Top Shop is no more physically

This ^^

Works fine for those with good mobility, plenty of time, good location, who can pop in and out or get easily to a post office.

Not so accessible though for many.

I'm one of those wearing a badly fitting, uncomfortable bra because having to rely on trial and error since bra fittings and trying stuff on in changing rooms is no longer something I'm willing to try.

How many female services are we willing to have that are inaccessible and exclusionary for females, in order to please and placate males? (While pretending at the same time that sex isn't dimorphic and fixed, and no one can tell the difference between female and male, even as we belie all this with our actions?)

No maybe not...but let's be honest you're probably at equal or higher risk of having an accident driving than you are of being attacked in a fitting room, if you drive that is. There is no watertight answer! The fitting rooms on the children's floor has to allow parents of either sex to accompany them..some pervents have children I would assume. Fwiw I think proper lockable doors are the way forward as they have on the disabled changing rooms, but some find that more threatening..

Thing is, if I offered you right now a box of chocolates and said "Have one, only one of them is poisoned and will cause you life changing harm" would you shrug and eat a couple?

Don't be silly, unless they were still sealed I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. I don't know you, same as returns to Primark they don't take back foodstuff or unsealed beauty goods in case they've been tampered with, it's a big risk to put them back on the shelf (maybe to be blackmailed) I would rather buy my own. People who want to return same goods or underwear don't see the harm either, and complain bitterly. life involves certain risks, and choices though..you can't mitigate for everything ever. Those that can can try on in the privacy of their own home and return within 4 weeks according to store policy. Those who don't find that policy generous enough can try on in store (or elsewhere) that they find safe enough and return on the day...there is an element of making mountains out of molehills here..if you weigh up the chance of not making it through the night in your own bed... going to sleep is a risk also

Your post reminds me of the time I was looking to shop M&S online for underwear and men with fetishes were leaving helpful reviews such as "Great fit even though not exactly designed for what I have to fit in it.”
Not all the men hadn't shopped online though. They got their kicks putting the knickers on in store. It was part of the thrill, especially in a mixed changing room area with women and girls in the other cubcles.

But that's OK. The women can stay home and shop can't they?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/10350754/marks-spencer-slammed-men-underwear-reviews/

Can transwomen not try stuff on at home and bring it back within a generous four weeks?

Quite honestly, if you think the 28 day returns thing is viable you are off your head.

Firstly it disadvantages anyone who has less money. When you go to the changing room how many items do you take? Far more than if you have to pay upfront.

This is where its nonsensical to ditch changing rooms for women and only make them for men - which mixed sex effectively does.

If you try on in store you may make more impulse buys. If you order online, you are going to order less to try on in the first place.

Regardless of how much the trans pound is worth, its still less than all those sales you will get from footfall and changing rooms.

There is an exemption in law for single sex where there is a legitimate reason to have single sex.

If you want to do single sex AND a mixed sex option in store, there is nothing stopping stores from doing so to be inclusive. Apart from them wanting to cost cut of course...

As for legislation. Yes it could be legislated that shops are jointly responsible for sexual assaults and voyeurism on their premises if they have not taken adequate steps to prevent them. That would soon focus minds. Some notices reminding customers of the risk might not go amiss too. Or you could easily insist that all mixed sex changing facilities have big safety warnings about hidden cameras or camera over/under cubicles plastered everywhere. That would also focus minds.

Im sorry but I don't buy into the 'we can't' or 'it's too difficult' on any of this. It's about we don't want to. Part of this is because it's easier to say no to women. Women are conditioned to be passive. It's easier to tell a woman to leave than it is to tell a male to leave.

This isnt right. Especially when it has a religious discriminatory angle to it too.

Its easy to say 'we are inclusive' whilst simultaneously forcing Muslim and Jewish women to self exclude in an invisible fashion - because they aren't trendy and don't have the fashionable celebs all over twitter advocating for them. Its bullshit and we know it and we should keep saying it.

This comes down to laziness, contempt for other minorities and misogyny. That's it.

There hasn't been a political will to challenge this nonsense. What we are starting to see is political will emerging.

We have to remember just how sexist the fashion industry is. There are brands out there who are deliberately designing for mens bodies not womens (h and m for starters). Designing for the different shapes of women is much harder than men. Which is cheaper?

Its not about the cost of going back into town with your returns. Frankly it's the hassle and the worry that some jobsworth will refuse to take your return. And if its a hassle, I'll just buy less...

I will very rarely buy anything online if I haven't seen in real life, precisely because of the issues I have with my figure. Plus I HATE getting low quality stuff that looks good in photos.

And I do wonder if going into a recession, that might make fashion stores think more carefully. It's going to become a much more competitive market.

Online brands have struggled with the sheer weight of returns. A lot of which they land fill. Which brings me to something else - it would be worth requiring clothing retailers to account for items sold and binned, with financial penalties for the latter. Again it would drive retail units and reduce waste.

This thread was about Primark!

Excellent post, RedToothbrush

There is a really simple solution to this. We have a changing room for women (females) who prefer a single sex option, and those women who say they’re happy to share changing rooms with males can use the mens. Surely if changing with males is no problem they’ll be fine?

But this isn’t a simple solution at all, if you have men who identify as women. Who identify as female. And want the validation of being in the women’s changing rooms.

The actual simple solution is lockable cubicles.

Why would men who identify as female be allowed in the female changing rooms? They’re not female. They should be in the male spaces with all the other men. It would depend on whether primark are more interested in protecting women and girls or indulging males with mental health issues. I’m guessing they’ll err on the side of men as usual.

Sometimes the answer to wanting other people's rights taken away from them for validation purposes is 'no'. Sometimes what is wanted is not fair or acceptable.

Hearing 'no' is not going to harm anyone. Other people have rights too. This is a reality that everyone in society has to learn to deal with. No exceptions.

Why wouldn’t they be allowed?

They’re allowed everywhere else - that’s the entire issue. They’re even allowed to compete against us in sport, even though they very much have male bodies.

Men get prioritised over women. ‘Twas ever thus.