Men of the far right and the women's movement

[SapphosRock]

Excellent article from Jean Hatchett about the recent fascism debate.

https://thecritic.co.uk/men-of-the-far-right-and-the-womens-movement/

This bit really struck me:

On one side of the fence are aggressive men screaming “fascist” at women who are clearly not. On the other side, skulking in the shadows, beneath the banners of women, are men who clearly are.

'It is not difficult to announce to these men, once and for all, that they are not welcome at women’s events. If they turn up, turn them away.'

Let’s turn this to historical events.

Did LGB Alliance ‘turn’ away Ives before Ives used the female toilet while announcing they were doing so on social media? Did prominent feminists rip LGB Alliance’s reputation to shreds because of their neglect?

Did the organisers of Filia not make it clear enough last year? The protesters still turned up. Oh, and the protesters did not get turned away either! Where are the recriminations against Filia for their failure.

Did the organisers of the Labour women’s discussion not make it clear enough that those outside carrying smoke bombs should leave without throwing them in Grenfell. Like the organisers could tell before hand that some group would have the understanding of a gnat that this is not appropriate behaviour.

Yes the first two groups were denounced after because it was abundantly clear they were protesting. But the first?? If Ives didn’t pull that stunt but live streamed instead without causing any fuss at all and just left, what then?

The point is, in an open mic event where any woman is invited to speak, even trans activists (as long as they don’t steal the mic), there are no tickets and it is not possible to actually turn people away who are not breaking a law, how the fuck is this to be done when no one has successfully done it in the past.

Jean Hatchet has made some pretty questionable comments in the past, in this article she is right about some things but completely undermines it through sly implications that the men were in the ‘inner circle’ therefore invited. And that just their live streaming of the event is enough to affirm an ‘association’.

It is slyly done.

Where were the proactive suggestions on actual ways to achieve what these feminists are stating can be done ? Particularly since it has been said to be so very easy. I’ve not seen one yet?

If the article was ‘balanced’ surely we should expect that?

Yes the first two groups were denounced after because it was abundantly clear they were protesting.

sorry. Second two groups.

By the way, has Julie Bindel been black listed because of some of her associations in the past?

And I have yet to see anyone who is supporting the ‘denounce’ model answer my repeated question about panels. Should feminists stop talking on a panel where a far right person is there, just in case they might be seen agreeing with that person on one issue?

OR

Should the feminist mention continuously in the panel (what happens if it is edited out of the video version) that they are ‘not aligned in any way’ with that person.

It truly is bizarre that we have reached this point and that those believing Jean Hatchet’s article is covering it in a balanced way, cannot extrapolate out how this is also supposed to work in all situations.

Or is it only open mic situations? And then, only standing for women event situations?

(Hence my question about For Women Scotland rally held soon)

To be very fair if someone rocks up to your open air public place and you don’t want then there because you don’t agree with them all you need to say it

go away

and then they go away

fact

dunno why no one tried it

@FOJN · Yesterday 18:10

I think one of the reasons why KJK is so appealing to women is that she demands nothing of them.

Oh of course. Kerching😀

I still think we should train pigs to be fascist sniffers!

And then the crowd can just remain silent while the pig snuffles at the fascist until that fascist leaves. (And hope it is not a retired truffle pig smelling a truffle oil and cheese pizza lunch.)

We can call the process the ‘pig of shame’ and call our pig, ‘fashy hunter’.

FOJN · Yesterday 18:39

I'm so tempted to get a T shirt printed with "poundshop fascist and proud".

Do it. Maybe Posie will make some and sell them to you and you can show us you mean business.
No privilege there at all

Is this what this is really about?

Anger at facilitating activism by selling objects rather than crowdfunding or grant chasing?

No privilege there at all

How strange. As a person who didn't even grow up with indoor plumbing, I knew how to paint a t-shirt with a slogan as a teenager.

No privilege needed at all.

Or has this thread now become about class & privilege too.

Because I reckon that is a road to no where fast considering this forum draws in people from different countries around the world who don't fit in to the UK's fascination of defining class.

Being able to write a successful grant proposal seems far more privileged than making t shirts.

But then, most of my favourite bands tour in transit vans and flog t shirts (far more profit in a shirt than in a record, especially if you are totally DIY and don’t have the privilege of management/publishing/distribution deals.

Buying a t shirt seems a lot less privileged than being in a position to just give away the price of a t shirt to a crowdfunder.

But I’m a northerner, so maybe privilege is different down south?

See also: having the spare cash to buy a ticket for a feminist conference (that you have to travel to and stay over at)

or
being able to turn up to a one day open air event for free

(that travels to you and you don’t need a baby sitter for)

Maybe Brighton privilege just hits different to Wigan privilege? 🙃

hey ClogLady, am I in your inner circle now?

Will you take my word that I am not a fascist? Or will I have to pass the Fascist pig test?

Moresaltnvinegarplease

You've quoted me twice, I'm flattered.

I grew up with an outside toilet . Shared with the entire close Next .
Can you imagine how other people might see a t shirt with poundshop fascist on it ? Maybe certain members of the public who aren't part of your wee Posie gang? Is there anything in your head beyond Posie Parker and getting one up on the so called "Head Girls" ?

Yes, some posters on MN have a fascination on trying to define 'class' and 'privilege'. It is as useful these days as teets on a bull (as my mum would have said) and what you say is true considering most of us would have access even to a plain t-shirt that still fits and can be easily painted with anything we like.

And again, being able to afford to travel to an approved feminist conference and pay the entry fee (or just travel if you get a free ticket).

Would you like me to list all the other things I lacked so we can have an oppression face off because it wasn't 'just an outside toilet' I was talking about.

Or can you just admit your post was actually quite ridiculous on an internationally access forum trying to pull in 'privilege' over getting a slogan onto a t-shirt.

Jesus

KJK really does bring out the nutcase in some people doesn’t she?

is it because she doesn’t give a shit what you think that she drives you quite so mad?

Can you imagine how other people might see a t shirt with poundshop fascist on it ?

depends on whether they are privileged enough to be sneered at by Sarah Ditum or not, no?

Maybe certain members of the public who aren't part of your wee Posie gang? Is there anything in your head beyond Posie Parker and getting one up on the so called "Head Girls" ?

And here we go again. This is the absolutism that we constantly see from extreme trans activists.

Hands up any person on this thread who considers themselves as part of an exclusive 'Posie' gang, and 'getting one up on the so called 'Head girls'?

Anyone?

Or are we quite happy to admit that sometimes Kellie Jay missteps, but that monitoring who live-streams an event held in a public space is not actually something that I have seen ANY feminist group do at their rally. In fact, it is probably luck more than good organising. (Imagine if Julie Bindel ended up with someone live streaming her talking outside the library the other day!)

And are many of us also usually the ones who appreciate what many feminists do and appreciate them for who they are without needing to denounce them. And we can still assess how balanced their articles are without declaring them to be 'head girls' or anything else.

And we are also not on this thread creating extra divisiveness by declaring getting a slogan onto a t-shirt (which any child or teen can do if they are crafty enough, despite 'class') is privilege.

Can we afford the pig?

shall we ask the Brighton Feminist Gang to issue a grant for purchasing a an Anti Fascist Pig?

Or shall we flog a lot of t shirts out of the back of the van?

I’m going for the second option.

(even if they do buy us an anti fascist pig we’ll likely only be allowed to use it at properly ticketed feminist conferences)

Look. If fascists want to hear and share what ordinary women are saying about the impact of gender ideology on their and their kids' lives, then surely that's a good thing?

If fascists are spreading the message, "don't mutilate kids," then what's the problem?

Let them livestream it. I hope ALL the 29 paid up fascists in the UK saw it.

Can we afford the pig?

I am sure I can get us a pig. I am not quite up on the training of said pig, but I do have some knowledge with livestock. I am sure I can borrow a pig bartering some home grown vegetables and herbs and we can put that pig to work.

We can also charge anyone some money for photos of the pig (not picking up the pig for cuddles, because I am not sure that any pig really wants to have a whole lot of people cuddling it. An occasional pat will be fine I think) to then give back to the owner of the pig.

Isn’t the pig owner scared of being snuffled out as a crypto-fascist due to loaning said pig to women from ‘Prosecco Stormfront’?