sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Then let’s cut the string holding the sword, let women (and men) be free to think & say what they believe is real. Because as long as we’re in their space, being called an acronym aimed at specifically them as an insult and another one they’ve called themselves they are going to either think we are one of them, or they speak for us.

@MNHQ please, does;it have to be BiRers, we’ll take any unoccupied alcohol (or not) related board. But can we be let out of this particular one. Our cellies think we’re fascists, faschist-attracted or incapable of choosing who we should heed without first running it past them. I do think this could all go away with a very loose acronym that covers anybody or any stripe that happens to agree on a single point of objective reality.

When have we ever blamed children for their father's actions or beliefs? A ridiculous suggestion that anyone would tar children or adult children in this way. Although I would refer them to a group who are more experienced at giving professional support.

You still don't get it do you. Some of us don't give a shiny shit about maintaining our allegiance to the left anymore. Its not the threat you seem to think it is.
For years I was a Labour voter, my politics were left and still are to a point. But after 40 years of support, they were willing to chuck us under a bus faster than you can say 'stunning and brave'. You're not going to entice them back by calling them all fascist by association or demanding we keep pure in thought and deed.
Haven't been to one of KJK's talks yet, but i,m more and more inclined by the day to attend because what I am interested in is stopping women's rights from being rolled back, and it's obvious that that's not going to come from the left anymore.

It's tricky also in my experience because people are not always talking about the same thing simply in terms of clothing. Lots of Muslim women aren't more covered than the black Baptist ladies that go to the church down the road from me, and if you talk to them their reasons are very similar.

And then on the other side you have westerners and sometimes feminists trying to argue that highly sexualized clothing on girls and women are evidence of their political and sexual freedom and we need to fight against things like dress codes for school or work.

There is a moderate middle that respects the body and extremes that don't but it's not at all clear to me that these campaigns would place that in the same place I would.

The internet algorithms can be scary as fuck - I mentioned Rand Paul as an example of a right wing libertarian last night and today I get this:

Rand Paul questions Rachel Levine on puberty blockers

I know this is the US but nonetheless it’s not far off where we are now in terms of Labour/Tory - if the left doesn’t have the gonads to tackle the trans lobby straight on well, thank fuck the right do because the consequences of no one speaking at all is irreversible damage to kids bodies.

I don't think JB is a very systematic thinker. She seems to be all over the place on a lot of things.

I'm not talking about tarring anyone. I'm saying that if Posie is to reach as many people as possible, including 'bad' parents of children who are affected, then everyone must be able to hear her talks.

Including people you don't like. Or she doesn't like.

Even the most casual googling soon reveals that HoO was not founded by TR but by Ian Craig and Peter McIlvenna, both of whom are from the Evangelical Christian right and Ex UKIP.

McIlvenna is also on the staff of a member of the House Of Lords.

Religious right but not fascist.

Throwing another log on the fire

This is my position too @reesewithoutaspoon, but you expressed it much better than I could.

She's another one I unfollowed a long time ago.

Good lord, it is not about blaming.

You seem to be incapable of seeing things outside of abstract political alliances.

Members of this group, whatever their politics, are people. They have families and children whom they love. They have wives, mums, sisters, some may be women themselves. Some of their actual kids may actually be affected by things like schools transitioning them. Or they are struggling to get help to access non-affirming care. Or are worried about having a woman to care for their old mums.

Actual people.

They have every right to engage both intellectually and in terms of political activity in order to oppose these threats to themselves and their kids.

PP's movement isn't some feminist power grab, it is to help actual people, their actual kids, and actual mums. So they are welcome to come to her meetings, to listen or share their relevant experiences as women.

Your view that it is ok to suppress people's basic participation in society because of wrong-think - even real shit ideas - is like nothing so much as the practices of the Soviet or Maoist states.

You are ironically on this thread giving everyone a clear view of the mind-set that leads to that kind of society, which is at least as fucking scary as a truly fascist state. You aren't convincing anyone to do anything but run further away from the LP and the left in general.

This:

You still don't get it do you. Some of us don't give a shiny shit about maintaining our allegiance to the left anymore.

A fair few feminists insist I am “mostly a myth”, a “fabrication”, the “odd lone case”.

I’ve been told to shut the fuck, blamed for “feeding the fire against” < insert sex of choice > up by feminists and MRAs

I’m an inconvenient truth to a fair few people more motivated by an -ology than making sure fewer children go through what we, and many other now adults, went through.

And I’ll say what I said there, here too. A pox on both your houses on that issue. The mountain of formerly small humans sacrificed for the sake of an -ology’s “right about eveythingness” & “oh poor us, THEY hate Us, woe is Us” is very real collateral damage.

I will always maintain my support for the economic left, even if I am actively campaigning against the identity left and it's extreme bigotry and authoritarian tendencies.

It does feel liberating to let it go.

I didn’t leave the left, the left left me.

And when I finally stopped chasing after it and waved it off on it’s merry way, I felt a fuck of a lot better.

Obvs I’m still really worried about the economy and about the shit show of shower of Tories who lurch from one disaster to another but Labour/Greens/Lib Dems don’t have any concept of what left wing economic policy IS anymore (as we discussed last night) so no point in looking to them for help.

Sorry, but can I just say that this quote from @antelopevalley is a bit shocking to me:

'Feminists work for all women. But most feminists do not welcome all women and men to their events'

Why the fuck not?

I've called myself a feminist my whole life without realising you had to pass a political test? Clearly feministing wrong

Hello fellow “fascist”

Welcome to the #BiRer club for the unclubbable
(Believes in Reality - no other “in common thinking” required)

Lol. All the fascists put your hands up!

@antelopevalley how benevolent of those feminists to still work for ALL women, how magnanimous of them. I’m in awe

Fascists all over the world... join hands...

well it's a different earworm to 'everyone i don't like is literally Hitler'.

Do we get a badge?

or…

Is it a uniform?

As long as its got pockets I,m in

1. the fascist party in Italy was called that because their emblem was a bunch of sticks (certain thickness) and such a bunch of sticks was a ‘fascia’.
2. ’fascism’ then became a Word used on any politics that resembled Mussolini’s politics.
3. ’fascists’ then became anyone who are in the vicinity of those who disagrees with raging leftwaffe nutjobs, including - but not exclusive to - babies, fathers, mothers and random passer-byers who would like to hear what drowned-out speakers are saying.
4. ’fascist’ also covers anyone else who does not agree with the person who insists they are a fascist. About anything: the weather, the number of biological sex available to humans etc.
5. ’racist’ is anyone who says Islam is a teensy bit problematic, despite the fact countries where Islam is major- or state-religion do tend to have problems with democracy.

the problem with this is that language becomes unclear and misleading because words all of a sudden means whatever the speaker wants them to mean.
Fascist and bigot has lost their meaning. Nazi is the Ukrainian people, apparently, according to the Russian liberator Putin, and men become biological women because they think so in their heads and feel it in their hearts.

It is also really sad to see some women wanting to dictate what feminism is. And then being miffed when their really complicated instructions are not followed by the (indecipherable) letter. And then comparing other campaigning women to steaming piles of dogshit.

and really! Did JB ally with Yanni Yabbadabbadoubolous?