sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Is it possible that higher income / education muslim women are relatively privileged as a whole and they have a lot of agency in their lives? Is it possible that less educated and wealthy muslim women do not see the hijab as a choice and (some of them) would like richer and more educated women to fight for the choice to be available to all muslim women?

A very complicated issue, but the solution is unlikely to involve white people lecturing muslims.

As the founder and about to fuck off and do some actually work, so you’re on you own to set up a club for the unclubbabble types 😂 I would like to point out the following important message to the more clubbable types of all acronyms and title.

The fact that BiRer rhymes with beer (in my head anyway, you can pronounce as you prefer) is not a secret message that we are all raging fascists cos everybody knows that’s a dog whistle for Mussolini (the elder) cos <allegedly> he gave up alcohol and it was the milk that gave him and ulcer … but was it ? < insert suspenseful music >

< end creepy wee brackets >

Yes, I suspect this is true. Educated UK Muslim women I hear speak on the niqab/ being covered talk about it as a spiritual experience, as feeling closer to God. But when I watched a fascinating documentary of a Iranian (male) exile living and speaking for a week with four Iranian clerics, the clerics (male) were clear that women need to cover to stop men from going to hell by having sex outside marriage.

Surely we should be thrilled that GC views and committed opposition to the GI takeover is becoming mainstream? That public discussion of GC concerns now attracts people of both sexes, different ages, different colours and different political allegiances?

Gender Ideology is a dangerous movement. It can't be fought by a few leftie purer-than-thou professors or journalists alone. It has to permeate out to a critical mass of people, and those people will include some with whom we don't agree on much else.

Let's get this battle won and then disband and go off to our individual frontlines. Why women like JCJ and Julie Bindel can't see this I don''t know. I've heard a lot about Posie being a grifter and about dodgy dealings in the US. I don't care. She speaks to women JCJ and Julie Bindel will never appeal to, and she gets them mobilised. That's all that matters.

Someone upthread wrote about feeling dismay at the way purity spirals and virtue signalling have hamstrung the Labour Party. Let's not be like the Labour Party. I speak as a despairing member of the Labour Party.

Totally agree @YouSirNeighMmmm .
This one was interesting as it's at the Oxford Union and follows up with a playlist where he is strongly challenged by students. Kinda surprised it's actually still up after 7 years!
Was worried about linking it, but it was just so relevant to this debate on the thread- and my mind was going all over the place watching it and linking it to the conversation here. I also would not disseminate widely, but like you, I trust MNers critical thinking skills

Julie does know that. Which is why I stuck up for her when she appeared with Milo Unpronounacable when he was chief bogeyman.

Ps it really makes me think about the the tension between when ideas and views can be considered dangerous and the importance of free speech. I definitely fall in the free speech end of the spectrum as I think understanding where people are coming from is crucial to finding any resolution of conflict

Yep.

I’ve listened to the Bindel/Milo Yappychap stuff in the past.

I definitely believe the solution to bad speech is more speech.

Shutting shit down is a poor strategy and if seen as acceptable by the left, will be capitalised on by the right.

I will listen to the TR thing at some point. I’m still on the Keffals episodes of Singal & Herzog’s Blocked and Reported at the moment (also an important topic if you care about free speech, although hard to get your head around if you are new to the weirder parts of the internet)

And yet Bindel agreed with Jenny Harvey at Gappy Tales, who wants to make it all about left-right politics and purity. They can of course argue that — I'm for free speech — but I'm with Helen Joyce on this one. And the more the left deplore me for not being left enough the more I wonder whether I really want to be allied to them.

If you are fine with Hearts of Oak you are not aligned with the left anyway. You really are not. They are simply another reincarnation of BNP but with a better website.

Here you go Patti - I posted it earlier in the thread but it seems the right time for another upload!

(from the ‘Reality’s Last Stand’ substack)

They have been having a go at Maya all week too.

HanoverHussy
/@HanoverHussy
Maya, racism is not 'a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society'. It's not that deep.

Maya's response to Hearts of Oak, Patriotic Alternative and Sophie Corcoron:

Deny, minimise, excuse, justify.

The woman's a fanatic.

Do you think that if the children of some of these men are suffering under gender ideology they should be allowed to be supported by Posie's platform?

fine with

This slippery terminology is used to justify removing rights from people you don't like. Anyone who points out that these people have equal rights is accused of being "fine with" them, ie supporting them.

And all too often we hear it from people who claim they're interested in a "more equal society".

If you are fine with denying rights to people whose views you disagree with (or their children), you're not aligned with the left in any way.

It is very hard to believe that you are trying to change minds. It is so much easier to believe that you are trolling or trying to get people more entrenched in the views you claim to reject.

What do you mean, aligned? Am I aligned with HoO? Never heard of them before this weekend. I'am a member of the Labour Party.

If I happened to go to a protest about the council chopping down mature trees and and there were some Muslim or Jewish or Conservative people also protesting about the tree loss, would I be aligning myself with Muslim or Jewish or Conservative ideology? Nope. We'd just agree about trees.

You're going to have to argue better than that, antelopevalley, we're not stupid.

Spot on, ClogLady.

Oh give me a break, I’ve been listening to Sargon every now and again since I stumbled upon gamergate and ended up more confused than I was when I first went gamerwotnow ?

He’s not a fascist. And let’s face it, the odds are I’m going to be just a little more able to pick one out in the crowd than you. Given that I know a tad more fascist history and am < allegedly > about to get one as Prime Minister.

PS Me and one other poster are still waiting for our prize from your political general knowledge “last 50 years” quiz.

Her events are open to women of any political viewpoint.

That's a very deliberate decision because she believes gender ideology is something that affects women as women, irrespective of their political, religious, philosophical, or other viewpoints.

She is not creating a political party. She is talking about women, people with women's bodies. Who will be affected potentially, or their children will be affected.

Do you think people who are fascists, or otherwise politically undesirable, should be barred from trying to protect their kids from medical exploitation?

I'd suggest to you that no matter how wrong that particular political belief is, once you start barring people who think that way from the most basic elements of civil life, and restricting their ability to participate in society or look out for their kids, you have already undermined the political institutions you are trying to protect.

I’ve listened to Sargon occasionally too (I blame YouTube’s autoplay function).

I think he’s a pompous prick

As Sargon is not a fascist but is instead a publicly declared believer in free speech, I fully expect him to defend my right to call him a pompous prick on Mumsnet.

And in return, I defend his right to act like a pompous prick on YouTube.

I cannot believe how tone deaf the Head Girls are...JCJ wittering on now about 'facism' with more cronies, supporting her, ....when the entire issue is that regular everyday women like and go to SFW events because they can speak, share, be heard. But do the Head Girls address this?
Nooo, instead they just double down and these Left women ignore working class and regular women and talk over them, which frankly is patronizing and insulting.
It's also the cause of populism in the US, UK and Italy...Elites take over left parties for the working classes and totally alienate them...

Head Girls: get your heads out of your as**s

(and I say this as an upper class, uni grad, old Lesbian)

Maybe we’ve cracked the code. When they say fascist they mean pompous prick.

Like donate v pledge. Easy mistake to make.

I really think that they are scared to death of a movement that is just women with no political tag attached to it.

Their feminism can't claim to be the representatives for all women when they clearly cut out women whose political views - and mostly we are talking about moderates and normal conservatives, not fascists - don't align with what they think is correct.

It reminds me quite a lot of the way leaders of identarian race politics treat members of their own group who are conservatives. They have to do whatever they can to discredit them because their existence undermines the authority said group claims on behalf of the community as a whole.

Me thinks it’s a totalitarian hangover for the leftist women who all of a sudden find themselves without a party after labour betrayed women but still very much caught up in the current left “can’t accept any divergent opinions” mindset.

I’m politically homeless too but now after seeing what the left has become I abhor people who are against freedom of speech.

if I hear views I don’t agree with I will challenge them but never say they shouldn’t speak.

I’m politically homeless too but now after seeing what the left has become I abhor people who are against freedom of speech

This is me. There is nothing worse than realising 'your side' was never on your side at all. They pretended to be when it cost them nothing. But they shoved you in front of the firing squad to make the bully stop shouting at them.

If JCJ has joined the pile on of KJM, I am disappointed.