sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

I was peripherally involved with a feminist group for a while, and soon found out that I was assumed to agree that "Tories are scum" and would join in with that abuse.

I removed myself. I can see why women are so unsuccessful in the Labour party now.

People call me T*RF and GC all the time. Cos.. views + vagina, although the vagina appears to be optional these days. I don’t care what people call me. But if it is causing issues of clarity I’m actually a BiRer.

Believes In Reality Person
There are more of us than there are GC because we only have one thing in common.

#BiRer shall now be applied to all my SM (that I don’t use) so nobody dirties up your good name by associating you with my #BiRer germs. And it might help us find each other without all the “you aren’t doing it right, you didn’t do it first, and you’re not the ones doing all “real” work” kerfuffles.

This.

This thinking that 'everyone who isn't like me should not have equal rights or access to society and should be a kind of pariah subclass beneath their betters' is bizarre. Seriously. Particularly from people who think they're of the left. It's trying to create a new aristocracy.

Ah.
They may not actually say or advocate for anything facist, but we know that's really what they think.

Not a convincing argument.

I really want to go to Posie's next event now.

Does anyone know where or when it is?

This thinking that 'everyone who isn't like me should not have equal rights or access to society and should be a kind of pariah subclass beneath their betters' is bizarre. Seriously. Particularly from people who think they're of the left. It's trying to create a new aristocracy.

Especially bizarre when they say things about "wanting a more equal society" with a straight face in the same discussion.

Some people are more equal than others, as someone else once said, long ago. He had their number...

To be fair, I do think this is where antelopevalley has a bit of a point.

We live in a world where few people, and practically none on the mainstream left (who are trying to appeal to insane TRAs), talk about thing like homophobia and misogyny is islam. There is every reason to think that those who do, especially if they associate with Tommy Robinson and talk about patriotism, or if they make it a key part of their manifesto, might have fascist leanings.

But the trick is to do the complete opposite of what antelopevalley is doing.

She is amplifying their voice, when we should all be resisting the temptation to go all around the net publicising their existence.

She is ignoring their concerns, when we should be listening to their concerns, and addressing those concerns that are reasonable (if indeed any are when looked at and debated in depth). There is no point appeasing fascists, but if you can address some of their legitimate concerns, many of which are shared by people on the centre right and the on the left (but not shared by the identity left), then they have less ammunition to use when recruiting.

ISTR she was planning one in Cardiff, because it was around the time of FiLiA. Not sure though and plans may have changed.

Omg! Posie is awful, sending out open invites…….

…. to all the proper feminists. How very dare she.

twitter.com/StandingforXX/status/1574398506365845504

”This is the letter I sent to Jean Hatchet, Jane Clare Jones, Women's Place, Julie Bindel, Rosa Freedman and Nic Williams, before our Brighton Event.

-KJK-
I'm not sure it created the unity I had hoped.”

It was all the ‘If you’ve voted Brexit/Tory/silently wished the government took a bit less tax off your wages you may as WELL DELETE ME NOW’ that I couldn’t cope with.

Like, I’m not gonna kick my dead mum’s last living elderly cousin off my Facebook because they happen to think that the while the 1957 version of the EEC was a good idea the 2010s version of the EU has turned into massive overreach.

it’s just not normal.

They support free speech because people like Tommy Robinson have been jailed for what they said.

I think he was jailed for contempt of court because it jeopardised the trial, not what he said per se. As you acknowledge, it nearly caused a mistrial.

Yes!
We need a Beleiving in Reality Person identifier so the GC feminists don't have to be sullied by our involvement.

Found the video (only watched 1st part I think 2nd part is in the comments) all this talk of Tommy Robinson got me interested beyond heresay. He starts off talking about the meaning of fascism so it's very relevant to this conversation.
As with this whole issue I like to (and trust myself to) hear all sides of an argument from the first person point of view; eg part of my 'trudge up the mountain (as someone brilliantly called it on here) involved immersing myself in pro -transition advocates as much as GC people and everyone in between.
So, just in case anyone thinks this might be interesting/add to the conversation. Although I apologise if this is 'feeding the derail'!

Sorry. Link:

I have been well acquainted with One Law for All and Southall Black Sisters for more 2 decades. I am well aware of the left cancelling Maryam Namazie and Gita Sahgal for speaking out and know that ex-muslims and liberal muslims are thoroughly fed up and disappointed with the progressive left and intersectional feminists - whom they expected to be natural allies- throwing them under the bus. Why do you think I am so cynical about your political tribe? They have hitched their wagons to communal and identitarian politics. It was no surprise that they vociferously support trans id.

Oh .. this makes me feel so sad!

It’s a weird kind of fascism that doesn’t support the state’s right to jail people for saying stuff! Isn’t that one of the most obvious and defining hallmarks of fascism?

Contempt of court is a different issue and rightly isn’t covered under the concept of free speech (along with incitement to violence and defamation).

Tommy Robinson was rightly held in contempt of court, risking the collapse of trial of sex offenders/child abusers was beyond idiotic of him.

How were women supposed to take part in "No Hijab Day" on Twitter? Tweet about it? If it came into my timeline I probably would have retweeted it. I am fully against compulsory hijab but in the west I think it's more complex in terms of some Muslim women being able to take part in public life, and religious women's agency.

What a monster, she must be stopped!

I have been well acquainted with One Law for All and Southall Black Sisters for more 2 decades. I am well aware of the left cancelling Maryam Namazie and Gita Sahgal for speaking out and know that ex-muslims and liberal muslims are thoroughly fed up and disappointed with the progressive left and intersectional feminists - whom they expected to be natural allies- throwing them under the bus. Why do you think I am so cynical about your political tribe? They have hitched their wagons to communal and identitarian politics. It was no surprise that they vociferously support trans id.

Agree Mirax - it was witnessing the left participate in exactly the same sort of behaviour (including racism, the woke flavoured kind) as they claim to abhor in others that made me go ‘hold on a minute’.

Watching the left attacks on Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (and many more) made it very difficult to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Yes this, I’ve spent some time in Muslim women’s communities In the UK, particularly among higher income/ education Muslim women, and Muslim reverts ( converts) and they are bloody furious about people banging on ( as they see it) about how they choose to dress. They see it as a choice and feel insulted by attempts to tell them they should not make these choices.

A long time ago I watched a documentary on TV called "When Tommy Met Mo". I am not sure how accurately the programme represented the real TR, but in that programme he spent a lot of time with a muslim man, following him around, talking, meeting other muslims, and I got the impression that TR was not that unreasonable.

TR is a violent idiot and fraudster and not that bright and a convicted criminal with fascist tendencies. As someone on the left I really would like it if everyone like TR would disappear from public life 100%. But that does not make him pure evil and wrong on everything.

If "When Tommy Met Mo" is online anywhere I recommend it as an interesting watch, for those of you who are able to cope with viewpoints you might not like.

I would never recommend the programme widely, because of the risk of opening random people's eyes to TR, but on a feminist board with lots of left-wingers and few if any with fascist tendencies I think I am safe.

MalagaNights

Proposed for 16th October in Cardiff but SFW website says TBC.

www.standingforwomen.com/projects-3

This Yasmin Alibhai-Brown article is 7 years old but I often think of it when people start trying to smear Posie for having opinions about the hijab.

Alibhai-Brown, herself a Shia Muslim, was relentlessly attacked for it at the time, mostly by others in the left wing journalist sphere.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/muslim-woman-veil-hijab

(weird to see that Guardian Comment article has 1224 comments on it - what happened to the below the line bit of the Guardian over the last 7 years is probably a pretty good metaphor for the left in general!)