sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

From that Huffington Post article:

Change the silly ‘Gaystapo’ for a more sensible ‘Transgender Lobby’ and, well, considering the article is from 2014, he’s not done a bad job of predicting events.

and Antelope, who identifies as some sort of left wing GC/radical feminist presumably agrees with Alan Craig, who has since gone on to found Hearts of Oak?

and Antelope says Alan Craig is a fascist…

so that makes Antelope what?
A crypto-fascist?

Think you are going to have to ban yourself from your own feminist events, Antelope - can’t be letting any fascist sympathisers in!

Mussolini did a 100 years ago.
So okay not quote never. But name one fascist party in UK in last 50 years that has the name fascist in it?

If you google 'The BNP Claimed they Were Not Racists' there are several hits, including reports in national newspapers.

''Griffin, 47, told Leeds crown court that although in the early 1990s "the party could be described as racist", that was no longer the case.'
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bnp-chief-not-racist-648482

I'm really not understanding the snark. The far Right are a growing threat. There are women trying to warn others about that threat and all we are getting is snippy comments about 'what is an ally anyway'.

Yet it's a TRA who is linked to them. I wish you'd address this but you can't can you?

You missed out -
"Craig, who has described same-sex marriage as "social vandalism" and tantamount to "child abuse""

Where did my quote go? It was a post by antelopevalley from a couple of pages ago.

I am not a TRA. I am a feminist.

They think fascists turning up at events Kellie organises is fine. They do not see an issue.

Good point. I'll keep repeating this... the identity left has taken over the left, and we have no economic left left.

Another good point

The problem I have with that article is that I appear to agree with most of what Heart of Oak stand for:

Against sexualisation of children.
For free speech.
Belief in Christian values.

I must be a fascist.

The difficulty is I'm sure some of the characters involved have some views and a history I would not like, so I wouldn't join, but I can agree with them on multiple positions.

People can turn up at whatever events they like.

If a local fascist goes to see a film you produced, that does not put you in some kind of relationship with that person. You don't have to say anything about it.

If fascists are against medical exploitation of children, that is not bad, whatever other crazy or unsavoury ideas they might have.

No one is horribly worried about it because they do not think that these people have some kind of contaminating virus.

Stop being caught up in what people who indulge in that kind of magical thinking believe about you. You will never be able to convince them you are pure.

PLEASE can you understand that linking to sources is essential? I have not got the time to search out every claim made.

Its nothing to do with purity.
Its clear that some of us have previous experience with the right infiltrating left wing groups, and others think its hilarious to be concerned about them.

Queering politics is causing a loss of faith in the political system, and that is widely accepted as a pre-requisite for fascism. Along with austerity, economic uncertainty, and unrest. If you aren't worried, you haven't been paying attention.

Name one fascist party in the UK?

with fascism in the name?

in a limited time slot that starts after Fascism was out of fashion?

You are just being daft now.

National Front are just about hanging on, dwindling away to dust, still happily referring to themselves as fascists:

This recent article says that they are down to 29 members: hopenothate.org.uk/2022/03/02/far-right-roundup-national-front-leader-quits-britain/

www.workersliberty.org/story/2022-07-23/rise-and-decline-national-front

Tommy Robinson didn’t found HoO, according to your link. He was one of handful of speakers at the launch event.
it’s this kind of sloppy inaccuracy that robs you of any credibility.

We’ve gotten really used to fact checking TRA claims and scrutinising their arguments, it’s second nature now
But it’s really annoying when someone who claims to be GC/a feminist is just as crap at producing logical arguments or factual evidence.
You are making a show of yourself on the internet and it’s embarrassing.

Another great post

I look forwards to you all calling out the next thread dogpiling on a certain female psychologist with this much enthusiasm.

Well, yes, but that’s because I was pointing out the little bit of overlap in the Radfem/HoO Venn diagram, not the bit where there absolutely no bloody agreement at all!

You’ve just made OUR point for us, which is, just to recap, that just because HoO and us FWR regulars all agree that men can’t be women doesn’t mean we agree on any other stuff, including, as per your example, same sex marriage.

Not supporting same sex marriage isn’t a necessarily a Fascist thing though, it’s often a religious thing. None of the Abrahamic religions seem to like it much, does that mean orthodox Jewish people or Muslim people are all fascists? Of course not, that would be absurd.

Or, to rephrase, the unifying factor is a belief that all opponents do not care about oppressed and working-class people, and do not want a more equal society.

Exactly.

We’re talking politics in general, with the start point being Ditum’s sneery attitude to working class women. The conversation has expanded from there.

We’re not ‘dogpiling’ an individual, I don’t think you can really dogpile on mumsnet, because anyone can walk away from a thread whenever they feel like it? It’s not like social media where people are harassing a particular @ handle - it’s one of the reasons I much prefer old style forums to say, Twitter, where the site itself functions in a way that gathers up other users like a snowball.

Is the NF still going ? They seemed keen on calling themselves fascists. Well the ones who waited for my husband and his mates to walk off before accosting me for not sticking to my own race did.

I don’t think you can call a political party over here fascist because it’s either illegal or unconstitutional or both. Which doesn’t seem to have worked out so well as a cunning plan if our soon to be new prime minister is one.

You seem to think I don’t believe in fascists. They are not Tinkerbell, my belief is irrelevant to them, they exist. I gave one a tissue today. I did not catch Fascist Germs.

If people are so concerned about fascists grabbing a wedge issue or five and riding them home all the way to a resounding election victory, perhaps the best thing is to stop acting like they are an all powerful force with special hypnosis powers and persuade the parties you’d prefer to be in power to tackle issues with arguments rather than a fit of the vapours.

For your first paragraph to make any sense in this situation though you would have to believe that Standing for Women is a left wing group.

It's not. It's not "infiltrated" by the right, the right have always been there. See Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater who spoke in Brighton both explaining that they are not on the left. They did not infiltrate. This is why your left cohort demands for denunciation are landing so badly. We are not all you.

Queering politics is causing a shift to Conservative votes, not fascism. See the red wall trend which goes back to 2010. We don't need fascism as we have a strong liberal conservative party in this country.

You are paying a lot less attention to where ex labour voters go to than you think you are if you think we all become fascists.

I just found a link that says as of 2022 the UK NF has 29 members!
Technically still going, and still openly fascist.

But very much not popular any more.

(which is a good thing! Just in case anyone reading this thinks wanting the word ‘fascist’ to be used in a meaningful way is some sort of support for fascism, which was and remains, an abhorrent ideology)

Tommy Robinson and Hearts of Oak are supporting Muslim parents in that article.

Are Muslim parents Fascists?

Possibly by Antelope’s definition!