sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

The Councils ignored what was happening, but it is a lie to imply others ignored it.
It was feminists who first raised the alarm and wrote and pressured authorities on this. The BNP only turned up once it was getting some recognition. And they were there to recruit.

If you are happy for actual fascists to be involved, and Hearts of Oak are fascists, you are not putting women first.

If fascists are studying what women are saying its only to work out better ways to approach, infiltrate & recruit. They have no interest in promoting feminism, they don't believe in equality between the sexes. Setting out the welcome mat for them is a mistake.

So the centre had better start listening to women and to the majority of ordinary people if they don’t want to lose out to extremes on either side.

I nearly posted yesterday that Posie reminds me of Magdalene Berns.

Clearly Posie cannot hold a candle to the great MB (RIP), but she does share an incredible ability to make a point incredible simply, forcefully and convincingly.

It would seem to me that the main reason to dislike Posie is that for one reason or another you believe that appeasing TRAs whilst fighting for LGB and women's rights and safeguarding is the right way to go. It is possible that a more softly softly approach might be better at convincing TRAs, but Posie's approach is certain the best one to appeal to ordinary people, including ordinary progressive LGBTQ+ supporters who are feeling uncomfortable and confused because they are being accused of bigotry for having a sexual orientation.

The likes of AntelopeValley, Ditum and Julie Bindle clearly think they own it and other women have to kowtow to their definitions of feminism.

For myself, my feminism is not from an acclaimed book or from a political ideology. It grew from a simple sense of outrage at the restrictions placed upon me as a female child in my culture. From the lack of baby pictures of me compared to my kid brother, from males eating before females, from males being allowed to hit females but females forbidden retaliation. I had the bloody mindedness to say no and push myself forward even as a child. I was also willing to bear the price - often social exclusion from other women. My feminism is mine and the gatekeepers can FO.

Who amongst the GC community is setting out a welcome mat for fascists?

Can you list all the fascists who have been interviewed by - say - Posie, Glinner, Maria M, exulansic on their youtube channels?

Does she use the word fascist? Can you link me to the video and point in the video?

I have heard journalists say they were aware of what the BNP were saying but they ignored it because, well, the BNP innit?

The Times journalist who broke the story got loads of grief because of the ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Its a mistake not to listen to people because of who they are, rather than because of what they say.

And it’s a mistake not to listen to those raising safeguarding issues because you suspect their motives. Their motives may be self-interest, but that doesn’t mean that what they are saying isn’t really happening.

Brilliant video there. Says it all.

Who amongst the GC community is setting out a welcome mat for fascists?

The continual resort to bad metaphors in this hyperbolic game always amuses me.

I guess we're not talking about the usual sort of "welcome mat" which just kind of sits there on the porch, and doesn't care who wipes their feet on it?

The aim is presumably to conjure some sort of Hyacinth Bouquet type figure who sees a fascist coming down the path, and gets the husband to stall him before he reaches the door, while she quickly whips out the special welcome mat reserved for such occasions.

I do actually want to see some sort of Heath Robinson "anti-fascist welcome mat", which uses some sort of winch mechanism to quickly pull it out of the way if somehow a fascist is detected. Maybe audio-triggered, and relying on a trained dog who knows to bark on seeing Nazi regalia?

Can antelopevalley and those agreeing PLEASE address the simple fact that the far right attendees Hearts of Oak have no demonstrable links whatsoever to Posie Parker beyond their vague insinuations but they absolutely are linked to transactivist CursedE. Given that fact and the additional fact that the T word and other anti-woman abuse was used on comments on the Hearts of Oak video post, it is more likely they were there with the TRAs who were the only ones exhibiting dangerous and racist behaviour. Or is antelopevalley just playing a game of pretending everyone else is a fascist?

What is the problem with this?

Apart from the fact that they are unlikely to be actually fascist, see 100 or so posts before yours, why can't they take an interest in what women want to say on this?

The objections are incoherent!

oh god- whenever someone talks about fascists these days I hear the petulant, teen character played by Jane Horrocks in life is sweet
stop diluting serious words/concepts and grow up!

@MalcolmTuckersBollockingface it's such a pity that your local groups are overly prescriptive- to rehash something glinner said, this type of hierarchy is just the new priests...same as the old priests (he was referring to TRAs in Ireland but I think it works in this context)

I assumed a welcome mat for fascists, in the context of a GC youtube channel, would be things like Posie making a video asking to hear from people from all different backgrounds and beliefs who are GC and that she can interview, and then specifically saying that this includes people on the hard right and indeed actual, literal fascists if any are GC fascists. Or perhaps by stating opinions which are literally fascist.

But of course you are right. She effectively promotes literal fascism every time she says that she supports all women and does no single out fascist women for criticism.

I am beginning to realise what an appalling person Posie is.

Really? Is that the best you can manage? So they are going to listen to women and then "recruit"?

For what? A job as Fascist Manager in the Fascist Civil Services? Trainee Fascist Customer Service Representative?
This is just paranoid rubbish.

It's like the whole Red Wall/Brexit bullshit that labour push out out, that we've all been conned by the "far right".

Patronising rubbish. It's you that's the gullible fool, believing these stupid excuses for labour's irrelevance.

Brilliant.

You have just ignored what I have said.
The Times news story is not when the abuse broke in the media. It was the one that was picked up and amplified by racists.

Gender-critical is a far-right ideology, those are the people it attracts.
Thats the issue.

Kellie Jay Keen says in her recent video that there have been accusations that right-wing people were present, and she says they are welcome. She also says they are welcome to video and welcome to speak if they are women.
These right-wing people are not normal say conservative party supporters. They are fascists. And she knows who they are as she says they invited her on to be interviewed for their platform.
You can talk about all women as much as you want. But if you see no issue with fascists then you are not for all women at all.

‘Humans can’t change sex and kids shouldn’t have their natural growth interfered with’ is Far Right?

😃😃😃

do give over, you silly sod!

95% of the UK is far right by that metric, including loads of transgender adults!

All Kellie had to say was that fascists are not welcome at her events. But she said the total opposite.
And lots of you can see no issue with that, instead making jokes.
This will lead to more fascists attending Standing for Women events. They have been told they are welcome. Nearly everyone says the opposite.

If you feel the need to call me names for standing up for women's rights, equality and access, homosexual people's rights, equality and access, safeguarding for children, and an unpolitically captured by a quasi religious extremist ideology police and government? Well you do you.

I wasn't bothered by being called a Terf, this attempt to put me off won't work either.

Please read this, respond, and stop the squirrelling.

Thanks @Alltheprettyseahorses

This will lead to more fascists attending Standing for Women events

Because fascists love funny women? Spend all their time at feminist stand up shows?

🙄

I just posted these on another thread but they seem relevant here too so copying them over:

“Where the hand of tyranny is long we do not see the lips of men open with laughter.”
— Saadi

“Laughter takes the tyranny of the lies we are told and told and told and it blows them apart.”
— Kate Clinton

“Laugh at tyrants and the tragedy they inflict. Such men welcome our tears as evidence of subservience, but our laughter condemns them to ignominy”
– Dean Koontz

“Laughter is something we have against oppression and oppressive people. Dictators hate people who laugh at them. It's easy for them to destroy people who resist them. But if you create jokes against them, write funny poems or articles against them, then they feel helpless and desperate. They can't do anything.”
– Burhan Sonmez

“[Humanity] has unquestionably one really effective weapon - laughter.

Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution - these can lift at a colossal humbug, push it a little, weaken it a little, century by century…
but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast.

Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand.”
– Mark Twain