Owen Jones's video

[SecretTransTwitterEngineer]

Owen Jones posted a response to a person on Twitter who had suggested that he needed to have engaged in a relationship with a trans man to be supportive of trans issues, but turned into a commentary about anti-trans activism generally.

Video

As a straight trans woman in the UK who knows dozens of gay trans men and women, it does feel that 'gender critical' activists are constantly attempting to push the idea that gay trans ppl are attempting to force non-trans gay women and men. This appears to be divorced from reality - in fact I see far more (mostly straight) 'gender critical' activists attempting to shame non-trans gay women and men for being attracted (or being potentially attracted to) trans ppl.

I would ask said activists to stop attempting to 'de-gay' gay women and men like this - it's utterly homophobic and it's wrong.

I am sorry. I might be a bit bleary eyed this morning, but I don't understand.

Agreed about Little OJ but not sure what you want to discuss.

Not just you Cis - I had trouble following too, our language has been mangled. I think it's about making it okay to describe sexual orientation as being about gender, not sex, which I disagree with. People can do what they want, but don't take words that are already taken from us to describe ourselves and make them mean something else, find your own words.

I couldn’t make head nor tail of that post. It actually hurt my brain to read.

I would ask said activists to stop attempting to 'de-gay' gay women and men like this - it's utterly homophobic and it's wrong.

Agree with this, but it’s not GC people being homophobic, is it?

Yes I'm afraid in in the same boat. Are we talking gay as in same sex attracted here?

So a gay trans man would be a female who presents as a male, and is attracted to other females?

I don’t even know what straight transwoman means anymore. Do you mean you like men? The ones with penises?

Lesbians not including tw in their dating pool is sexual racism acc to Nancy Kelly. Not sure what point OP is making, perhaps I need more coffee?

I am going to need a venn diagram to work this out. Think it is why lesbians do not want sex with a trans woman? I could be wrong.

That is one world salad of opening post.

I look forward to the OP coming through and rewriting it to be legible.

Gay people, male or female, are same sex attracted. It's nothing to do with gender - gender is a social construct and basically a set of approved stereotypes for appearance and behaviour that either sex are judged on. Didn't used to be such an issue, but these days in our society there's a lot of judgement if you don't "conform" to the gendered stereotypes attached to your biological sex.

A heterosexual woman is sexually attracted to men, a gay woman is sexually attracted to other women. Gender is a red herring and irrelevant.

A woman who dates a trans woman is not gay, which is absolutely fine, but as they are opposite sex they cannot meet the definition of same sex attracted. Same goes for a man dating a trans man - opposite sex (but in reality gay men don't date trans men and nobody insists they should).

So are you using sex or gender? Noone knows what a straight tw is anymore due to the mangling of language. If you are claiming you are a transwoman attracted to women you are saying gc people are de gaying you?
The problem is young autistic girls who find puberty and the male gaze tricky cannot say they are lesbians.
Also it is clear by things like the cotton ceiling workshop and Nancy Kelly of stonewall that it very much is a goal, so yes not all trans people but tra have brought much sunlight to this and you must realise sexuality is linked to sex for the vast majority?

Same

I think the point the OP is making is after the very revealing evidence given by Mermaids in the week, where they had a number of witnesses give evidence that lesbians believing themselves to be exclusively same-sex attracted is transphobic, then it would be best for there to be a period of silence about same-sex attraction so everyone can forget what Mermaids and other parts of the trans activism community are pushing for.

I am confused.

But I will say that my dd who is a lesbian, faced quite a bit of hatred from TRA because she refused to not call herself a lesbian because her partner was a trans man. Apparently, she was invalidating her partner.

Despite lesbians being same sex attracted. Not same gender attracted.

I assume a straight trans woman is a trans woman who is attracted to women. As sexuality is about sexual not gender. Is the issue here that you don’t expect lesbians to sleep with you so decided it doesn’t happen and it must be the fault of people who are GC?

Some men have vaginas.
Are those the men OP is talking about?

Actually I think if you are a straight tw you mean you are attracted to men, so you are the one de gaying yourself!? Would you dare a tm with a vagina or is your whole point that you would not? If so, even more im0ortant to stop young girls who believe what the tra say?

I even tried reading it out loud and I got very confused
Is a non gay Transwoman a gay biological Male?

And is non gay just straight?

I might need some sort of diagram to understand that sentence.

Whatever it is you are saying, can we agree that it is women [the old fashioned ones, with vaginas] that are wrong?

As always, naturally.

Note, years ago, Owen posted that it was disgusting to suggest that he have sex with a person with a vagina. That is what this is all about.

If a transwoman who has had surgery has piv sex with a transwoman who has not...

Are we supposed to call this lesbian sex?

Because it isn't.

Have no idea what you’re trying to say.

It’s a lot of bother over a shag.