Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Owen Jones's video

196 replies

SecretTransTwitterEngineer · 17/09/2022 07:26

Owen Jones posted a response to a person on Twitter who had suggested that he needed to have engaged in a relationship with a trans man to be supportive of trans issues, but turned into a commentary about anti-trans activism generally.

Video

As a straight trans woman in the UK who knows dozens of gay trans men and women, it does feel that 'gender critical' activists are constantly attempting to push the idea that gay trans ppl are attempting to force non-trans gay women and men. This appears to be divorced from reality - in fact I see far more (mostly straight) 'gender critical' activists attempting to shame non-trans gay women and men for being attracted (or being potentially attracted to) trans ppl.

I would ask said activists to stop attempting to 'de-gay' gay women and men like this - it's utterly homophobic and it's wrong.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2022 09:28

OJ’s video is pure DARVO.

As is the OP.

NecessaryScene · 17/09/2022 09:30

I can't work out if you mean that as an insult or a compliment

If neither of them can write something I can understand, why should I give a comprehensible review?

Charlize43 · 17/09/2022 09:35

It must be my age (I'm 55) but I just find all these things far too complicated and very confusing to follow.

I've been told that there are 72 different gender identities now in 2022 and I really can't be expected to learn and remember them all at my age. I can't even remember half the names of the neighbours' children in my street when I see them (have taken to calling them all 'Sweetheart' when I see them) let alone how they identify.

I can't even name all the channels on Freeview, can you?

TheClogLady · 17/09/2022 09:36

pattihews · 17/09/2022 09:27

Not Black Mirror. Iran, now. Have surgery, present as a straight couple and you're fine. Insist on living and loving someone who appears to be the same sex and the hangman's noose beckons.

Horrifying and heartbreaking and exactly what our LGB &T charities should be seeking to prevent (and finding asylum for those presently in danger) rather than fannying about trying to remove ladies lavatories from UK public spaces.

it’s shameful really (and I really appreciated Bev from LGBA reinforcing the different picture globally on the tribunal stand this week)

InsertPunHere · 17/09/2022 09:39

I’ve read the OP through a couple of times and I’m still none the wiser.

Helleofabore · 17/09/2022 09:39

As a straight trans woman in the UK who knows dozens of gay trans men and women, it does feel that 'gender critical' activists are constantly attempting to push the idea that gay trans ppl are attempting to force non-trans gay women and men. This appears to be divorced from reality - in fact I see far more (mostly straight) 'gender critical' activists attempting to shame non-trans gay women and men for being attracted (or being potentially attracted to) trans ppl.

OP knows ‘ dozens of gay trans men and women ‘. So dozens of females? or dozens of people of both sexes who consider themselves gay?

Is OP saying that because none of the dozens of trans people they know are the males or females who are actually being or merely feeling coerced into unwanted sex by trans people, that in OP’s mind, it is not happening?

That the testimonies of those saying they have experienced it, often under risk of being abused for saying it, are to be ignored because OP believes that people who believe sex is immutable have shamed others for being attracted to a trans person?

I am stripping this down to the very essence of what I believe that paragraph says.

We have a person who listens to their mates, who are trans, about how they as people who have labelled themselves as ‘gay*’ have not experienced (other) trans people coercing, or attempting to coerce, them into unwanted sex acts believes that is the reality. And those people stating that it is happening and stating their experience of it, are of no consequence.

That is how I have read that paragraph.

And there is that oh-so casual statement that the only people who are saying this happens are ONLY ‘gender critical’ people. So, no person who is a trans-ally is saying this… or is OP declaring that any trans-ally who makes this claim is ‘gender critical’? Because no ally, would say it? Because according to Jones, an ally can think it, but not say it.

And OP is here to what, reinforce that any person who wants to support trans people, must not tell anyone their experience.

And that is not part of the coercion as well?

Let’s not forget part of this coercive effort OP is seeking to deny is the dating apps that terminate membership of females who state their sexual boundaries are only other females. So, is OP saying that is not happening either?

That females have to deal with unwanted attention because some people will not accept those female’s sexual boundaries? And that this is again minimised by OP’s attempt to declare trans people most marginalised in this instance?

So according to a group of trans people, there is no coercion by trans people on others to accept unwanted sexual attention or unwanted sexual acts. And any trans ally who states it has happened must be ‘gender critical’ (who incidentally OP regards as mainly straight because no lesbians seem to be talking about this….)

I mean, really OP, what was the purpose of your word salad post? And I think ‘divorced from reality’ is projection.

(*because the word lesbian is not used in that paragraph at all by the way….Hmm is this another sign of male socialisation, or just more confusion in that ‘gay’ has further replaced lesbian in current thinking? )

BloodyHellKen · 17/09/2022 09:40

@SecretTransTwitterEngineer I'm sorry but as others have said your post is very confusing and difficult to read. Please could you rewrite it referring to people by either xx or xy to then it's possible to understand who you are referring to?

LunaLights · 17/09/2022 09:40

@Cismyfatarse - I actually understood your labels!

Very accurate and descriptive:

XX lesbian
XX straight
XX bisexual

XY gay
XY straight
XY bisexual

This covers all SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS, doesn’t it?

Of course, a transGENDER descriptor could also be added if presentation needs also be labelled.

zen1 · 17/09/2022 09:42

I don't thunk anyone tries to shame them as such, just point out that they are bisexual. I get so tired of people who have relationships woth both sexes calling themselves "gay" or "lesbian" and telling actual gay men and lesbians they are transphobic for not doing the same.

Quite.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2022 09:44

That wouldn't work, because the overall group would still be "lesbians". It's the same as TWAW.

I really wish people would stop using the term woman to describe people who are male. And lesbian to describe either straight or bisexual males and bisexual women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2022 09:44

Sorry I put my own text in quote marks in my last post.

RoseslnTheHospital · 17/09/2022 09:45

The OPs not interested in a discussion, just a drive by scolding.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2022 09:48

It's not a very effective drive-by scolding, as no one understands their post and many people are blocked by LOJ, but that's gender identity ideologists for you.

Riapia · 17/09/2022 09:50

What is so difficult to understand about the OP?
It’s quite simple, it’s bullshit.

Cismyfatarse · 17/09/2022 09:53

RoseslnTheHospital · 17/09/2022 09:45

The OPs not interested in a discussion, just a drive by scolding.

I love this expression. This is what I do when pupils in class are not doing what they are supposed to.

The difference is, I stick around for the rest of the lesson.

TheKeatingFive · 17/09/2022 09:55

And Owen Jones, having inadvertently revealed his inner TERF, is railing against the universe for not supporting his hypocrisy. 😆

BloodyHellKen · 17/09/2022 09:55

Riapia · 17/09/2022 09:50

What is so difficult to understand about the OP?
It’s quite simple, it’s bullshit.

😂

Datun · 17/09/2022 09:56

I see far more (mostly straight) 'gender critical' activists attempting to shame non-trans gay women and men for being attracted (or being potentially attracted to) trans ppl.

Heterosexuals aren't shamed for being heterosexual, you silly billy. Where have you been?

And, how do you know all these people are 'mostly straight'. Did you ask them? You didn't, do you? Tut.

Also, if you're 'straight' what business do you have pontificating on the lives of gay people? Stay in your lane.

Signalbox · 17/09/2022 09:56

SecretTransTwitterEngineer · 17/09/2022 07:26

Owen Jones posted a response to a person on Twitter who had suggested that he needed to have engaged in a relationship with a trans man to be supportive of trans issues, but turned into a commentary about anti-trans activism generally.

Video

As a straight trans woman in the UK who knows dozens of gay trans men and women, it does feel that 'gender critical' activists are constantly attempting to push the idea that gay trans ppl are attempting to force non-trans gay women and men. This appears to be divorced from reality - in fact I see far more (mostly straight) 'gender critical' activists attempting to shame non-trans gay women and men for being attracted (or being potentially attracted to) trans ppl.

I would ask said activists to stop attempting to 'de-gay' gay women and men like this - it's utterly homophobic and it's wrong.

Another one who can’t make head nor tail of the OP. I guess that’s what happens when words become meaningless. No longer possible to communicate.

WinterTrees · 17/09/2022 09:58

I think this is the one time a wordless Ikea instruction diagram might actually be useful.

TheClogLady · 17/09/2022 10:02

zen1 · 17/09/2022 09:42

I don't thunk anyone tries to shame them as such, just point out that they are bisexual. I get so tired of people who have relationships woth both sexes calling themselves "gay" or "lesbian" and telling actual gay men and lesbians they are transphobic for not doing the same.

Quite.

Exactly. No one should feel ashamed of being bisexual (certainly not to the point where they need to redefine words to conceal their bisexuality!) and I’m certainly not going to participate in shaming anyone for their inborn sexual orientation.

Which obviously includes monosexual homosexuality and monosexual heterosexuality.

Sometimes people realise that they had mislabelled themselves (lots of late blooming lesbians out there) and ‘come out’ later in life and that’s fine too.

What wouldn’t be fine is saying ‘I always thought I was straight but I’ve now realised I fancy people of the same sex instead/as well so straight must now be redefined to mean attracted to both sexes/the opposite sex’ rather than just coming out as bi/gay.

postmodernism was cool as an art movement but it’s utterly bullshit for daily communications.

TheClogLady · 17/09/2022 10:04

Stay in your lane.

Yes!

OP, you need to Do Better.

Iwasntexpectingthat · 17/09/2022 10:08

This is both hurting my brain and making me cry with laughter.

This world man.. I mean.. them/that/it/human?

SeenYourArse · 17/09/2022 10:08

This is hilarious 😂 this is why the whole thing is fucked! It’s SO convoluted and messy and nonsense and it’s become a competition to be the most different and complicated in your ‘self identification’ AND your sexual attraction/ identity. It’s all about wokeism and attention seeking. Just be you for you, stop grandstanding your personal life and thinking anyone cares about your sexual orientation the general public on the whole doesn't give a shit it has nothing to do with us or anyone else you aren’t fucking!

CeratopsofthePharoahs · 17/09/2022 10:08

I'm with @ShirleyJackson on this one.