Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

There is a theme running through much of the trans stuff around weaponising suicide.

Each suicide is a personal tragedy. It is all too common amongst young people. If it were simple to prevent people would do what they could to prevent it.

Yet suicide seems to be used to justify transing children, or to shut down our friendly farmers. Is there any proof. I think Clouodflares needed more than just anecdote to interfere with the right to free speech in this way.

"What do you not want to see?"

Strangely Marge you seem to have misquoted or misunderstood the question you were asked. It wasn't 'what do you not want to see (on KF)' but 'what do you not want us to see?' I'm sure that was just an oversight.

I don't want to see LGBT people and their parents/allies doxxed, harassed or bullied into suicide.

Well its lucky none of that is happening on KF then, isn't it? It's just a site for laughing at the nonsense people post themselves on the internet.

Hate sites such as kiwifarms radicalise haters even further and are breeding grounds for this sort of thing.

I cannot read this without hearing it as 'down with this sort of thing', you know from that episode of Father Ted where Ted and Dougall go and protest outside a cinema against film they've never seen? Don't know why....

"Do you use Twitter @MargaritaPie ? Don't you think harassment and bullying is rife on there? Especially amongst certain 'minority groups'.
Do KF harass people? I thought there was a strict Don't touch the poo/Don't engage with the lolcows warning?"

Yes I do notice a lot of homophobia and transphobia on Twitter. Fortunately Twitter seem to be good to responding to reports and banning users who make threats etc.

This "don't engage with lolcows" thing is ridiculous. What you are basically saying is "oh we're sorry kiwifarms has doxxed and bullied people into suicide, but we put up a disclaimer telling our users to behave and not contact anyone we dox so that makes everything ok".

You can't doxx someone by putting their personal details online publicly for millions to see then say "remember, noone is to contact this person we just doxxed".

There's also a current ongoing case that may have some relation to this. I see my post in another thread was removed so I won't comment on that until if/when more details are confirmed.

Are you not old enough to remember telephone directories Marge?

We used to have a big book of everyone’s addresses supplied free to every household.

The only reason that has stopped is because the same companies have realised they can monetise the data, either by charging for credits (eg 192.com) or by selling ad space (yell.com).

it seems extraordinary to me that in just a relatively short time period the populace has become so used to that data being sold, that sharing it freely, as was the old way, is now frenzily being described as some sort of criminal activity.

it’s not. Not here, not in the US.

Why are you letting Big Tech frighten you so much Marge?

@MargaritaPie

Yes I do notice a lot of homophobia and transphobia on Twitter. Fortunately Twitter seem to be good to responding to reports and banning users who make threats etc.

😂Homophobia and racism just? Harassment by a particular group is what first came to mind for me. Threats, doxing, false criminal reports, libel, vandalism...
You're either being deliberately obtuse, or you've been taking too much of that DIY HRT.

You can't doxx someone by putting their personal details online publicly for millions to see then say "remember, noone is to contact this person we just doxxed".

It's not doxing if the personal details were already available. That's just republishing - archiving, if you will. Call it a public service.

"Are you not old enough to remember telephone directories"

I don't recall telephone directories listing personal details alongside unfounded accusations and slurs such as "pedo/groomer" etc.

"It's not doxing if the personal details were already available. That's just republishing - archiving, if you will. Call it a public service"

In that case JK Rowling has no right to claim she was doxxed. At the time of her "doxxing", pictures of her home and the address were actually publicly listed on tourist websites!

Surely anyone can claim anything as long as it's not illegal?

But, correct - no criminal charges were brought for those responsible, as I recall.

Why "unfounded"? The very nature of KF is that any dox is typically given alongside multiple instances of findings of an accusation.

I know you are brand new to KiwiFarms, of course, but surely you've established it's not just a list of names and addresses?

The thing about the JK situation was it wasn’t just the showing her address, it was the four actual people at her gate, seeking praise for their public condemnation of her.

Zinnia Jones’ address has been on KF for 5 years, yet no one has ever shown up on Zinnia’s door step. I’m glad Zinnia has never had 4 strangers at the end of the path waving signs about and taking photos to post online. I think that would be an alarming experience.

I don’t agree with randomly showing up at anyone’s private residence, let alone a strangers,
Heck, I’d even text my sister first and let her know that I’m on my way.

… but then I’m not a hypocrite, Marge.

Do you think it’s ok for four people to turn up at a stranger’s private residence?

Public sex offender registries list paedo’s crimes, their names, their photos and their home addresses together.
Most US states have a website expressly for the purpose of sharing paedo addresses - is that doxing Marge?

Are you against the system of sex offender registry, Marge?

You really do seem a bit paranoid…

Are you scared of something tangible or is it just the online boogey monsters?

(I picked Zinnia purely due to this 5 year old tweet btw)

You are the only one bumping this thread

for someone who wants KF ignored you mention it A LOT

to be honest i've spent more time on kiwifarms since all this kerfuffle and the caroline farrow nonsense than I had done in the preceding 5 years combined

bit of a streisand effect going on there

Ha!
Quite!

Still, while we’re bumped back at the top, here’s some new material on the Keffals’ Kerfuffle, a substack from the (former) Twitch streamer known as Destiny.

It was Keffals going after Destiny and KiwiFarms documenting that argument and broadly supporting Destiny (despite Destiny also having a thread) that resulted in Keffals gaining a dedicated thread all to Keffal-self and thus in turn, motivating Keffals into trying to shut down the farms.

(although IIRC Keffals is supposed to have a KiwiFarms user account dating back to 2017, will fact check that and come back)

Keffals: A Case Study on Internet Terrorism and Mass Media Manipulation

Introduction:

For the last six years, progressives and conservatives have waged vicious war with one another across cyberspace. With cultural, political, and advertiser pressure bearing down on these social media platforms, conservatives have slowly found themselves on the losing end of the digital battlefield in the ongoing culture war. As their role flips from oppressee to oppressor, progressives have sometimes found themselves embracing many of the same styles of aggression conservatives once engaged in.

it’s a long post and I believe there is also a stream of it on Destiny’s youtube for anyone who would prefer to listen than read;

destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-internet

(in slightly related news, I hear one of the KF physical servers is in Kyiv, and things in Kyiv are very shit indeed, including for the staff at the IT company. I realise it’s all very ‘thoughts & prayers’ but I am genuinely thinking about the things that connect otherwise distant humans and hoping for the safety of the people in Kyiv)

"Zinnia Jones’ address has been on KF for 5 years, yet no one has ever shown up on Zinnia’s door step"

Noone turned up on JK Rowling's door step either. As a billionaire she has the privilege, unlike most people, to live in a large property that is surrounded by a wall and a locked access gate watched by security cameras.

If regular people are doxxed then anyone can literally show up at their doorstep, if a rich person is doxxed all anyone can really do is turn up to the street they live on.

Hold on, are you genuinely saying that you are against doxing generally but that doxing is fine by you if the person is rich and has a sturdy gate?

But not if the door step is directly accessible?

Not all rich people have gates, Marge.

is it ok to dox a celeb who lives in a mews house in Knightsbridge?
Where does that fall on your acceptability spectrum, Marge?
They don’t have gates.
They are very expensive though.

Some poor people have gates, in fact, council estates often have electronic key fobbed gates.

Is it ok to dox poor people as long as their gates are sturdy? Or is doxing only OK if the person has money? If so, how much money? How rich does a person have to be for doxing to be ok, in your opinion?

I personally believe that that street addresses are not private information.

I also believe that 4 haters turning up at anyone’s personal residence, whether the occupant is rich or poor, has a gate or just a doorstep, is always, absolutely, and 100 percent unacceptable.
.

What do you think Marge?
I admit, I do rather struggle with your inability to be consistent from one post to the next.

a well-known exploit from 2010 (which Cloudflare would have protected against)

I don't know what point Marge thinks Marge is making here, but I feel compelled to pop in to correct the fundamental misunderstanding.

I kind of thought I'd already explained this - maybe I guess I decided not to bother. I will bother now, despite the thread having moved on, as Marge keeps repeating it, and I don't want Marge to keep looking stupid in front of people who know technical stuff.

CloudFlare provide Distributed Denial of Service attack protection.

The hack was due to a script injection vulnerability in the chat thing Null's running.

To make this a simple Marge-level analogy, Null's been having problem getting staff for the bouncers on the front door. (CloudFlare's a bouncer, in case that's not clear)

The quality of the bouncers, or a change in bouncer staff has no impact on whether or not someone inside the building can use a coat-hanger to hook onto a key through a gap in a wall somewhere inside the building. (The vulnerability was the gap in the interior wall).

(Well, obviously you could have bouncers that let nobody in, but that kind of defeats the purpose of the club).

"Hold on, are you genuinely saying that you are against doxing generally but that doxing is fine by you if the person is rich and has a sturdy gate"

Doxxing against anyone is wrong.

But if someone has pictures of their home and address on public tourist websites I would raise the question of whether it would be possible to dox such a person(by definition it means posting personal details without consent). I presume JK Rowling was aware and gave consent for the tourist websites to present this info to the public at the time?

Strange how often we return to “she was asking for it”, isn’t it?

I don’t believe so, no.

why would you think JK had given permission for her private residence to be advertised online and also complain about her address in the photo?

most of us aren’t as inconsistent as you Marge!

Anyway, back to my previous questions:

is the sex offender registry doxing?

is it ever ok for 4 haters to turn up at a person’s private residence and if so, what parameters make it OK?

Yep.

I don’t think any famous person would actively choose and give express permission to have their actual home address posted on a tourist guide (!) let alone a female famous person who is a survivor of domestic violence (and it’s not as if JK needs to flog Harry Potter mugs and biros from her garage, nor does the property appear in any films).

Yet Marge wants us to believe it’s plausible because it’s the only way Marge’s ‘doxing is ok for me but not for thee’ inconsistency can be rationalised.

That just sounds like jealousy. So she's rich, and your not. Neither am I.

FWIW if you have a few quid you can find my full address with postcode and birthdate AND who lives with me and how much I paid for my house and how much is left on the mortgage. It would be a little more difficult to find my workplace but not insurmountable. You can even pay £14 and get my full birth certificate sent directly to your house and I will never know.
All with my name and a vague idea what part of the country I live in.

And only about 10 years ago my full address and phone number were in a huge book called the telephone directory that was sent to pretty much the entire country for free.

Is anyone else seriously wondering what @MargaritaPie username on KF is?

Yes i am 🙋🏻‍♂️

maybe it’s tequilacake…..