How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

[JellySaurus]

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

I'm very sympathetic to people actually working on the job, but I really don't think you are getting people's point here.

People are understanding that there are funding issues, that there are other reasons that there is a lack of people available, even that there is a requirement to record certain things or sometimes investigate what really happened.

But they are also seeing some pretty egregious examples of police going well beyond that, trying to tell members of the public that they are in the wrong when they aren't. And while I fully accept that these may be particularly idiotic individuals, it is a very bad impression. And when you combine it with time and money spent on rainbow washing, stupid workshops, twitter campaigns, etc - that all represents time and money.

The optics are really terrible, especially where it is also politically divisive.

The fault is with the leadership, but those people are still part of the police force.

Or - I should have just agreed with VestofAbsurdity.

And I know how frustrating it is to work in an organization that buys into this stuff, it does not mean they should not be criticized.

stillvicarinatutu
i know - i like to try though

Our police services should not be demonstrating themselves as giving a free pass to the Rainbow & Alphabet people.

Our police services should be serving absolutely every single person in our society. They should not be wearing insignia indicating that they are fully paid up to the discredited queer theory

badbaduncle
i agree - we should be doing more (police and as a society) about gangs in the parks & streets etc. But at present we often have no one available. And if we do, we just turn up and move them on - so moving the problem elsewhere.

ResisterRex
But again, the macarena dance - those officers would have been directed to patrol that area and that area only. If there is no ongoing offences or issues at the time in that area, is there anything wrong in dancing? Making themselves approachable for the crowd, lifting the spirits of people, lightening the mood - all for 30 seconds of dancing. Or are we there to just look menacing?

VestofAbsurdity
The twitter spats - it depends if its crossed the line into offences - if it has it might be investigated further - if not and its just a non-crime incident, then the advice might have been given to get off twitter if you don't like it. Each incident will be different and will be down to individual officers to determine if it has crossed the line. Bare in mind also, what we get reported is often totally different to what we find.

The FiLiA conference - was it a protest, were offences being committed? I'm not sure why police were not sent to be honest - were there any available to go at the time?

I agree that we should be totally and utterly politically and everything else neutral. The only thing I wear which would be controversial is the poppy around November time - and yes I have been pulled up by members of the public for wearing it. I even shy away from wearing charity stickers or wrist bands in case it upsets/offends people.

We don't have any vehicles with rainbow decals - in fact we don't have many vehicles with police decals due to budgets and have to 'steal' vehicles from other departments (CID, CAVA, DV etc etc). You should hear it when comms are asking for units, the amount of us that have no vehicles - and we are emergency response! Our management reply to this 'you can always go out on foot' - we have to respond to emergencies within 10 minutes, which mean i have to run at a pace of Usain Bolt for 7 miles across town!!!!

We don't have the free resources any more like we use to and i haven't even mentioned case files and paperwork - and it has to be done or cases would not get to court. Due to all the 'lessons learned' things, we can't go back to how it use to be and now need vast resources of staff to do things properly.

Someone mentioned non attendance at burglaries - if we can deduce that there are no solvability factors right from the start, why do we need to send a cop to it? A house burglary where entry was gained through an unlocked door sometime through the day and a bag next the door was the only thing taken - no further entry into the house, no CCTV, no suspects, no witnesses and neighbours haven't seen anything - why do we need to send a cop? it would be nice to, but we don't have the resources to do it now and tough decisions like this need to be made.

Felix25

It's amazing isn't it that threatening death, rape or sexual violence on a woman via social media is not a crime in any way shape or form, yet a cheeky limerick required phone calls and a visit from the Police. No, sorry you don't get off that lightly women have been told to just get off social media if they are offended by being threatened with death, rape or sexual violence the undercurrent being that they somehow have brought it on themselves - where have we heard that before, how long have women had to put up with that attitude? - and yet a member of the special caste gets immediate action and not told to just toughen up, get off social media or ignore it. That is not equal treatment and you know it. For some reason, can't think why, the Police either can't be bothered or don't care when women complain.

The FiLIA conference, it was well known this conference was taking place, it is a feminist conference, it was also well publicised on social media that there would be protesters there to protest the conference. Is graffitti and threatening behaviour not a crime these days? Ah yes, forgot, it was only women that these things were being directed at wasn't it.

Policing is a serious business, it requires serious people do you honestly think the public are going to take seriously a bunch of policeman dancing the macarana and bragging about how down with the LGBTQ+++++++ crowd they are? Or prancing about in rainbow bedecked costumes or cars? They are being paid from the public purse to police the crowd/parade they can do that in a reasonable, friendly manner without making idiots of themselves by dancing and plastering it all over social media.

The public want a police force they can respect, trust and look up to, they want a police force that works to prevent and solve the crimes that effect them whether that is car theft, burglary, vandalism, anti-social behaviour right up to serious crimes. The public perception is, rightly, that the police are failing across the board to do this they seem far more concerned with preaching about their woke credentials and blazing it across social media. The amount of stuff put out on social media from Police accounts about Pride, LGBTQ+++++, Stonewall, Trans Days, etc., is legion, it is constant and it is undermining public faith in the Police.

You know as well as I do that many members of the public do provide CCTV evidence regarding burglaries or car thefts and fuck all happens they are just given a crime number and told to claim on their insurance.

The Police should treat everyone equally, without fear or favour and it is blatantly obvious that they don't.

I'm bothered when women/men complain - and if a person complained to me about threats of rape etc over social media, i would have investigated it. Its an offence of malicious communications.

But then other offences over social media occur such as stalking, harassment etc - but some people say we shouldn't be involving ourselves in that as it falls into the category of 'hurt feelings'

The FiLiA incident, were these threats being made to a specific individual and did that person complain? Or were these general protest placards - sorry i don't know too much about the incident, do you have a link? But do you blame individual officers for that or do you re-deploy officers from one incident to this one?

Policing is a serious business, but is a 30 second dance at an event with members of the public really that bad? If that was fire fighters or paramedics doing this, would you feel the same way? You don't want them to show a friendly, approachable side? I policed the 2012 Olympics at London and was asked by loads of visitors from all over the world for a photo with them - should I have turned them down?

So you want us to be more involved in crime - great so do I - but our resources are depleted, not due to a 30 second dance, its due to the amount of safeguarding, paperwork and guarding vulnerable people we have to do. We regularly lose an entire shift of cops through this and there is no one else available - this is what is stopping us crime fighting. Jobs just back up and the non-emergency event queue just goes through the roof. How would you address this?

Not many burglary victims provide CCTV of the incident that can provide a suspect ID. Burglars are savvy now and cover their faces. Victims can also forward CCTV onto the police via a link so we can assess at the point of the call if the CCTV can provide an ID.

Felix
The issue for me is the vast majority of the general public have unrealistic expectations and so not listen to reason.

Highlighted here by the outrage of not attend every single burglary whether there are solvability factors or not - yes I do think we SHOULD attend even if it's to do some reassurance and just make people feel better but the reality is as you say - we do t have those numbers anymore to enable us to engage , talk to people, spend time with them when theee is zero chance of solving the crime . I left response for that reason- it gave me the rage and I was just frustrated at every turn . Yet I was pissing about with people ringing 999 then not engaging , or people going "whad is is yeah is shanice said my first cousin once removed said something in Facebook and I think it was about me " so you go out and you probably door knock at 9 am and they aren't up yet so you defer it for later and go about 1pm and they open the door , wearing a tiger onsie, invite you into the hall with no carpet where you then ask why they think the fb post was directed at them and they say well I didn't see it but my friends best mates sister told me that Jordan said that his mate said it was and so I'm offended innit and I want to press charges "

And every time I went to these jobs my will to live just for sapped a little more knowing old mrs smith with dementia who wasn't locking her door was letting all the local yokels in while they nicked her pension money and bank card on the premise of buying her a kid of bread .

Folks do not realise what we are subjected to . That's without the assaults on us , the spitting, the threats to rape your kids because you had the audacity to lock some wide bearing piece of shot up to try and give that woman. Nights peace even tho you know the entire shift will be now spent doing a file for cps while also knowing it will go nowhere because she loves him and won't give a statement and you'll be back there next week .

I just couldn't do it anymore. I'm taking a sabbatical and driving a desk . For now . My batteries need recharging . I have my all on response - always late off - always last to finish , always the mug that shouted up for the job that came in 20 mins before shift ended when everyone else would go quiet on the radio and dispatch would shout me because they knew I'd go . Never claimed a penny overtime. And yet - in the eyes of the general public we're all shit . Police pride and dare to join in a bit of fun while there ? We're wasting tax payers money! Forget the daft those cops are there solely to police the event and can go nowhere fast because that's their deployment for the day on their cancelled weekly leave day that they have absolutely no choice in working .
Aye we're there to stand arms folded - not engage - and then we'd be accused of being standoffish, inhuman , unapproachable.....yadda yadda yadda ....
You sound like you've been in a while - I have too . I just had to get off response - I realised this when I threw a file at my idiot Sgt after asking for an enquiry day with the cos action plans I had to do and the 30 odd crimes on my list that I wasn't getting two minutes to follow up . I think I'd have had a breakdown tbh if I hadn't left response . When I started I loved it . I miss it now - but I'm in a dept now I can get leave when I want , No cancelled rest days , no being assaulted, bitten, spat at or shot at .
I'm burned out .

Forgive the typos . I'm tired .

And ......

No one will read that and give a shit .

I'll be wrong . It's my job . What did I expect . Do what your paid to do , I pay my taxes , I want I want I want .

I'm just soooooo pissed off with it all now . It's not worth the money , the assaults, the danger, the cancelled rest days where you might have actually had plans because you might have a life or family or kids but they have to come second to the job so
Shanice can tell you she wants to press charges because someone told her someone saw something on fb that may or may not be about her ....I've missed Xmas, my kids birthdays, ducking hell even funerals . When my mother died I asked for a days annual leave and got told no - apparently this is a disciplined organisation and we should sort our own parents deaths out after work .
I kid you not .
Went to fed . Got signed off sick . Now drive a desk .

Highlighted here by the outrage of not attend every single burglary whether there are solvability factors or not

you don’t read very well do you? I mentioned a POLICY of not attending burglaries. Anyway this is annoying, you’re determined to be on the defensive and you’re refusing to acknowledge that there are any instances of police time being used illegitimately and certain groups being treated preferentially.
It’s like nothing people are saying to you in here is even penetrating. Way to live up to the negative stereotypes 9; your profession. I was hoping you’d be able to provide insights, and in a way you have provided some by failing to have any.

My force does NOT have a policy of not attending burglaries.

Yes tons of my police time is wasted. On dick heads . Just like my time here is wasted on dick heads . Irony .

Oh and don't forget- if your offended by my hurty words you can always call the police . They'll waste taxpayers money investigating your complaint. Because that's what the police have to do . Regardless of who you are .

Sorry you're . *

I’m a teacher in a great school. I work very hard and try to teach all my students with respect. I know and teach my subject well. That does not mean that when people complain that teachers are giving wrong information to their students or treating them unfairly, that I can tell them they are wrong because I don’t personally see it happening, nor should I call them dickheads for complaining.
We get you’re stressed, overworked and feel under appreciated for doing a tough job. Take a break. Deal with the stress as best you can. Stop getting angry at the people you’re supposed to be helping, they have a right to a better and fairer police service, just as you do.

I didn’t say your force had that policy, did I? Again you’re not reading properly.

Policing is a serious business, but is a 30 second dance at an event with members of the public really that bad? If that was fire fighters or paramedics doing this, would you feel the same way? You don't want them to show a friendly, approachable side? I policed the 2012 Olympics at London and was asked by loads of visitors from all over the world for a photo with them - should I have turned them down?

It's not the 30s dance that's the issue, but the adoption of partisan flags and ideologies.

That police (and NHS, and education) are under-resourced, over-stretched and subjected to unreasonable demands, is a disgrace.

But then other offences over social media occur such as stalking, harassment etc - but some people say we shouldn't be involving ourselves in that as it falls into the category of 'hurt feelings'

Which people? Your bosses?

stillvicarinatutu

I'mvery sorry you're unhappy with your job, but the majority of your posts have nothing to do with what's being discussed here.

And your classism is showing.

I'm quite shocked by the contempt shown for the public here, I have to say. Well, shocked but not shocked iyswim. Especially for the working classes, it would seem.

"Without fear or favour"?

Part of the problem is the proliferation of paperwork - which should and can be solved but the energy and political will is not there. We need more police presence on streets not filling out paperwork. It’s part of a wider problem with all those involved in frontline public services. It all needs to be properly looked at. Very little of this is within the control of individual police officers who generally do the best they can with the resources and priorities they are given.

I do think that the police should be impartial, without fear or favour. I do not begrudge them dancing the Macarena at an event they are policing but do object to them making overtly political gestures.

It’s like nothing people are saying to you in here is even penetrating. Way to live up to the negative stereotypes 9; your profession. I was hoping you’d be able to provide insights, and in a way you have provided some by failing to have any.

This. It's depressing and frustrating.

the macarena dance - those officers would have been directed to patrol that area and that area only. If there is no ongoing offences or issues at the time in that area, is there anything wrong in dancing? Making themselves approachable for the crowd, lifting the spirits of people, lightening the mood - all for 30 seconds of dancing. Or are we there to just look menacing?

I think the original post of yours setting out what happens on a shift was really interesting. I also see why this dance would happen. But - there's a big but aimed really at the leaders here - the police have got to see that trust and confidence in them is falling. They have made big policy decisions about what not to do eg fraud. They can't pretend that's not the case.

And some of the responses to the vandalised car showed a worrying depth of anger and distrust. Anger they had the brass neck to complain about what happens to ordinary citizens who just get a crime number and get told to claim on insurance. Distrust because we've seen what's happened now the LGB has been hijacked by other letters.

We expect our public services to be for the public. We don't the police to ally themselves with organisations that proudly boast they're "getting ahead of the law" and whose slogan is "acceptance without exception"(!!)

There are other concerns for me, to do with safety of the female public and female officers. This report by Standing For Women seemed to find that not only can men identifying as women, search females in custody, but that men identifying as women can demand female officers to search them.

https://www.standingforwomen.com/files/ugd/1b54b44_be4532b6a2dc419e90c090dbfc8f6868.pdf

Honestly I find that terrifying. Don't the Police Federation have something to say about this, even if the Chiefs have kept quiet? Surely they care about the safety of their female members?

The actual policy exchange report which this thread is about, barely touches on this level of detail but just says the police shouldn't be part of politics. They shouldn't. It's against Peel and it's against everything we want in our public institutions.

@Felix125 These are the same parks grooming gangs pick up their victims from. But these are working class kids, who gives a shit if they are raped by old men and attacked by gangs of teenagers. I live there, I see it. It is not the communities job to stop gangs of taxi drivers raping young women and gangs of youths attacking people, it is the job of the Police. I have worked with Maggie Oliver and the Police DO NOT CARE about these young people - they admit as much. They do care about protecting the reputations of men, and mens sexual rights.

The programme AntiSocial on Radio 4 at midday today is about 'Woke' police, see the blurb:

Accusations that the police are spending time dancing the Macarena at Pride parades instead of controlling crime stepped up this week following a report by a think tank. Critics say the police are being political by taking the knee at Black Lives Matter marches and prioritising policing Twitter over policing the streets. Others say community engagement is key and that it’s all about resources.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001bl3g

I'll put it on but the previous episodes have been disappointing with a vibe of "But what can us nice people do when so many engaged in the debate in question are so intolerant?"