How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

[JellySaurus]

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

MangyInseam
Then you get people like our friend Felix who can't seem to wrap his head around the fact that there is a line between crime and thought-crime

So this 'thought crime' - back to Mr Smith and his dolls
Police come into contact with Mr Smith
He is not committing any crime as it stands - so we record nothing about our interaction with him; as we don't what a Stasi style policing on people who have done nothing wrong.

As he has been found guilty of nothing - we record nothing on him

Similar to the guy that's keeping a ton bag of fertilizer and all the chemicals associated with making it go bang. Record nothing on him and hope for the best!

Is that how you would like it. Suits me really, less work for me

The link is this. You have a police force that is not able to adequately respond to real crimes, which people are understandably upset about.
And yet there seems to be these reports of attention being paid to these real non-crimes. Even if you know those aren't the cause, that is maddening.

You have to establish what the initial call of the non-crimes are

we also deal with lots of non-crime that need a police response. Missing children are a non-crime. People with mental health crisis are a non-crime, sudden deaths, people threatening suicide, car crashes etc etc

But the 'attention being paid to these non-crimes' such as the sticker incident - you have to establish what the initial call was. What was the initial threat assessment from it based on that initial call. You have to know this before you can determine whether the police response was right or not. If it was a case of "...there is a non offensive sticker that is not really causing anyone any issues..." - it probably won't have needed a police response.

If the reporting person embellished or lied on the initial call and it tipped the balance to warrant a police unit being spent - it would not have trumped an emergency call or similar priority call. It also wouldn't have pulled officers away from a safeguarding issue (cell watch, custody queue, victim safeguarding)

But, the amount of 'woke' things we deal with on a day-to-day basis is insignificant compared to everything else we have to do. It is this that is preventing us detecting crimes - not woke things. Do you at least agree with this?

The police are overstretched. We get that.

So why are you police spending precious time investigating women with stickers? Why are you deciding that a woman with a women's rights sticker is of greater concern to the police, in that area and in that time, than anything else happening in that area, at that time?

Sounds like a politicised police force, cracking down on feminists, A police force that is not so bothered about actual crime, but very bothered about women expressing feminist beliefs.

If you only want posters who 100 % agree that all police forces and the people in them are woke...

Who said that? We all know that there are many good officers (and some excellent ones) but they get let down by the bad ones, plus by poor management from above.

Why do you think those nothing g jobs would prioritised?
Because the officer taking my statement told me himself that reports of hate crimes make people in gold braid jumpy. I had been the victim of homophobic abuse at work, no threat of violence, just got called a f*#&@t, all captured on bodycam. While the approach from the local officers was the same as for any other crime I've reported (occupational hazard in my job), there was noticeably more communication/victim support from officers working at division level.

I'm not suggesting that these are prioritised over emergencies, but even so it's clear which targets are the ones that help towards the Superintendent's next promotion.

But don't record anything if he is found not guilty at court or its judged that no crime has occurred from the onset. Or record it for police eyes only? But would the public be happy if something was to go wrong in the future when we had the information to hand, but didn't disclose it and a member of the public was hurt?

Yes, if someone is found "not guilty" that allegation should not be disclosed to third parties. The information can remain on file of course, in case it later becomes possible to secure a conviction (new evidence appears or whatever) but as far as (for example) his employer is concerned, he should be innocent until proven guilty.

Whenever the balance has to be struck between preventing crime, and maintaining basic civil liberties (I'm not talking US Second Amendment batshittery here, just basic stuff like being innocent until proven guilty), we should always defend our civil liberties. Otherwise it's a slippery slope into tyranny.

Sadly there will always be crimes which could have been prevented by tightening up liberties, but how far do you go with that? The end state is everyone being monitored every second they're out of the house, plus draconian Internet censorship etc. It would prevent virtually all crime, but I don't want to live in that sort of utopian dystopia. There may be individual victims, and each one is a personal tragedy, but if we lose our freedoms the whole of society will be a victim.

Have you had a sex change too Felix ?

It appears we must be "he" because we are trying to explain the intricacies of actual real policing as opposed to what people think it is .

I can't decide if I'm pissed off or amused at being sex changed in a fwr discussion since I'm only here because I'm a woman and a police officer. (do the posters realise some police officers are born women , are women , stay women , and still manage to do a job traditionally dominated by men ? )

No one except one poster has commented on that .

It appears to have been glossed over . I wonder why ? The majority of posters on MUMSnet are women and mothers. As I am .

Felix, It's not a matter of only wanting people who agree.

You don't even seem to understand what people are saying here, your answers are mostly non-sequiters.

Do you know Felix is female? I thought not. If I'm wrong, it's an error, not a sex change. Felix is a male name and from what I remember did not correct anyone saying "he" earlier in the discussion. Men do post on MN, there is at least one other in the conversation now.

Honestly, most of your points seem reasonable to me, right up until you seem okay with Felix's lax views on civil liberties.

But this issue of the public seeing the police as too woke is not the fault of the public misunderstanding. It's the fault of the leadership and management. And it's something the public is right to be upset about.

And mangy

It s clear not everyone understands policing events had to happen when I was answering someone who was wondering why the police were at a carnival up the road from them.

This thread is very disjointed. I answer one post after another then someone comes on and posts "no we understand that xyz happens " but it's clear some posters don't understand, else they wouldn't be asking why police have nothing better to do than be at a carnival?

I really appreciate the posters here who ask questions and then read the answers but many are t reading the answers - and just keep repeating that I'm a man , and police are prioritising "woke" job or that police have nothing better to do than go to carnivals or police mass gatherings .

My opinions do t matter at a mass gathering - I'm there for one reason - but if I can engage and speak to people whether they be at pride or an edl demo , or an anti fascist demo , or a Black Lives Matter demo - if I can be friendly , engage as a human being with other human beings - despite that our opinions may differ - if I can engage I will because talking to people actually gets far better results than standing stoney faced and refusing to engage . We aren't some alien species in uniform - were people , mums and dads and gay and straight , uncles and aunts , just people doing a job - talking is key to the job . Having a laugh or joke or talking doesn't make us affiliate to that cause - it makes us human .

Well I am female . Born female . Still female . And yet some here insist I aren't .

Felix is a user name . Is Felix the cat male or female? Do we have to pick usernames that denote our sex now too ?

I do t know Felix . No. But evertime anyone says something that doesn't fit the rhetoric here they get referred to as male , he .
As a woman , that's pretty annoying. The fact is I am a woman . Born female . And yet I keep
Getting referred to as a male . Why ?

This thread is getting close to the end. It has certainly provided some useful insights, although they have been somewhat buried amongst the lengthy posts and longer disputes. At times it feels that overall it has generated more heat than light, which is a shame.

I agree . I've never come across a command team or higher ranking officers I had much respect for . Well there are a few exceptions actually but most are out of touch completely.

I used to work for a district commander who is now a
Chief constable - he was lovely . I got bollocked for giving a so called criminal
Y number so I could help them fill out some benefit forms . He said I was what had been lost in policing - the human touch .
But yes most higher ranks are out of touch and concentrating on their next promotion.

Oops, I meant to add that any inadvertent mis-sexing of still and Felix in the thread is very regrettable. Thanks both for taking the trouble to give your side of things, regardless of any disagreements.

That's very gracious of you and I thank you for that x

You're very welcome, although I don't believe that we have crossed swords, so perhaps it is easy for me to say.

My motivation was never to
Cross swords. It was to try and explain the facts around policing from the point of view of someone in the job and has been 14 years,

As a woman . I'll never make excuses for shit policing and lazy or corrupt officers , or where common sense has gone out the window . I just wanted to try and engage in a discussion, to try and explain the facts and any misconceptions. Most here have been really lovely and even if we've had different opinions the dialogue remained open . It's
Been useful to me as I hope it has to you all.
Lots of food for thought . We appear in the uk now to have quite a PR disaster . That's a shame. One made by some terrible publicity and terrible decisions. But I really believe that despite these cases - they are not the norm - not from what I see first hand anyway .

Thank you for the chat .

And I wasn't accidentally mis gendered. Read back a bit .

That was someone being offensive and sexist . Deliberately.

I've made it perfectly clear the last time I got accused of being a man - and since I've been here since 2007 lots of posters know me and some stepped in . I've met some posters!

I think the poster determined that I'm a man wasn't accidentally mis gendering if I'm honest . Twice on this thread this has come up and twice I've had to argue my own sex .
And the you ok hun ? Jibe tells me they know full well I'm a woman .
But hey ho ! that was few and far between. It's mostly been a pleasure to chat , even if no o E agrees . and time I reckon .

NiceRedShoes
We're not, that might be the perception, but we're not

All jobs that come in get graded on threat, harm & risk - so emergencies (such as a ongoing DV or missing suicidal person) go to the top of the queue and dispatched out straight away. Other jobs get placed on an event queue to be dealt with as and when (shed broken into over the weekend etc)

The stickers job will probably be not graded as an emergency, so will fall onto the job queue depending on what threat, harm, risk was established on the original call

So, if there are no current emergencies, comms will try and get some jobs sorted from the event queue.

But we often find that there is no-units free as they are still dealing with the same emergencies hours later. Why - because the person arrested is now in the 3 hour custody queue or is on cell watch as he has threatened to bray his head off the cell wall. Or the missing person found claimed he has take a load of tablets so must be watched at hospital before going for a mental health assessment.

Then very quickly you lose the entire shift to similar safeguarding issues.

Then if the suicidal male at the hospital is later admitted or assessed - the police unit shouts up comms to stay they are being stood down - if there are no current emergencies, comms jump at the chance to try and get a job sorted from the event queue and they usually pick the oldest job on there or the job that's closest geographically to that unit. The unit is then sent, whether its double crewed or not. And bare in mind that that police unit also carry there own crime enquries which they are trying to get sorted.

DdraigGoch
Can we use this intelligence to get things such as non molestation orders & Domestic Violence Protection Orders?

As these will often be based on intel as apposed to proven convictions.

I can't get the video to play, but on Twitter, the police claim that it wasn't a walking stick, but a wooden instrument similar to a rounders bat (but not a rounders bat).

Either way, it seems that the police actions were to escalate the situation rather than pour oil on troubled waters.

The police had gone to the wrong address (a mistake - we all make them) and a frightened/angry old man with Alzheimers had come out and waved a stick of some sort. They could have retreated, could have calmed him, but they chose to call for back up and make a mountain out of a molehill. The old man is horribly bruised as a result (though to be fair old people bruise very easily - as an old women myself I know this).

I think that one of the problems is that a lot of mature experienced officers have left the force due to the increasing bureaucracy and politicisation, and this means it is staffed by younger people with little or no knowledge of how to cope with situations other than calling for back-up and shoving everything up a notch.

We also live in what is an increasingly violent society - and to be fair, there are many 80 year olds who are perfectly capable of cracking somebody's head open - they aren't all sweet little old men and women.

I do think that most police officers are good and caring people - but they are in a situation where, due to staffing numbers and paperwork demands, they just can't cope. However, they often seem to prioritise the wrong things. I don't know how we're going to come back from this.

I'm pretty sure Felix has said or acknowledged he was a man before. As Mangy says, if not Felix hasn't corrected anyone so it's their error. I've certainly come across Felix before on other threads and always had male in my head.

Yes, if someone is found "not guilty" that allegation should not be disclosed to third parties. The information can remain on file of course, in case it later becomes possible to secure a conviction (new evidence appears or whatever) but as far as (for example) his employer is concerned, he should be innocent until proven guilty.

Whenever the balance has to be struck between preventing crime, and maintaining basic civil liberties (I'm not talking US Second Amendment batshittery here, just basic stuff like being innocent until proven guilty), we should always defend our civil liberties. Otherwise it's a slippery slope into tyranny.

Sadly there will always be crimes which could have been prevented by tightening up liberties, but how far do you go with that? The end state is everyone being monitored every second they're out of the house, plus draconian Internet censorship etc. It would prevent virtually all crime, but I don't want to live in that sort of utopian dystopia. There may be individual victims, and each one is a personal tragedy, but if we lose our freedoms the whole of society will be a victim.

I agree. I don't believe anything should be shared externally that isn't the result of an actual crime being committed.

I can't agree as when I was mugged with another female by a gang of males, they came in 5 minutes and took the crime seriously arresting some of thr criminals but unfortunately no conviction as they couldn't identify the mugger from the others in thr gang.

I was impressed they prioritised 2 lone women so quickly

All my dealings with the police have been good

doesnt mean that the police force as an organisation and individual officers can’t be wrong at times

Well, anyone reading through will have a good idea why the perception mentioned in the OP is bad.