How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

[JellySaurus]

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

"My classism is showing " -

I was brought up on a council estate

Went to a comprehensive school
Had a part time job at 15
Left home at 16 and became homeless
No opportunity for further education, worked on supermarket checkouts, garage forecourts, did a secretarial course after the kids were born .

I am as working class as it gets .

There is now a faction of society that feels so entitled, and the police cannot just say no. Not dealing with that .

Yes I'm frustrated with the job but one thing I can say without hesitation is I treat everyone fairly ,
People here saying the police don't care about kids or women - is simply not true . I care very deeply about the people I've helped . I've remained friends with a few well after their job has been through court etc .

My force policy is that child concern incidents and domestics take priority over every other incident on the active queue.

For every one of those there is paperwork to fill out - so you may go to a domestic where the couple have simply had a verbal argument, but have 4 kids .
You have to submit paperwork for the domestic element and submit paperwork for every child under 18 . This takes time .

Being "woke" doesn't enter my head . Each incident I've attended is dealt with on its merit - is there a criminal offence- yes or no .

I don't care what sex , colour , race, age , gender , class, that person is .

I deal with the criminal offence not the person .

I do think a lot of forces are tripping over themselves trying to change their image , be down with the kids , right on , trying to not offend anyone- in doing so it will always offend someone .
The police can't win . So for me - we should go back to basics. Stop being apologetic for offending someone because someone will always be offended and do the job of policing.
Not quite gene hunt style, but stop pandering to everyone.

For me - turn up - is there a criminal offence- yes - crime it , investigate it .
No - say so - leave .
It should be simple . It isn't .

I met up with a friend recently who brought with her her DB and his wife. He's a recently retired police superintendent and his beef was with the College of Policing, which he said had gone full-on woke several years ago and was hell-bent on instilling gender ideology and other ideological beliefs throughout the force. He said the College of Policing isn't fit for purpose and needs to be shut down. He says the police need to consult with the public to redefine what core areas the public want policed and he was pretty sure that the majority didn't want police time to be spent investigating tweets and FB posts.

Harry Miller has just been introduced as a guest on the AntiSocial on Radio 4 about the "Woke Police". Interesting, they led with him being associated with Laurence Fox and his Bad Law project was mentioned seemingly as subsidiary to that. I can see why the programme went for that distortion, Laurence Fox is more click-baity, but ironically it undermines the thesis of the programme: how to avoid polarisation in debates.

The public, who you police with their consent, are saying loudly and clearly that the priorities of the Police are wrong, yet deaf ears are turned all round, that is the issue, it's not personal to you @stillvicarinatutu and @Felix125 you are taking it personally and being defensive it's aimed at the entirety of the Police Force as a whole, the prevailing attitude towards the public they are meant to be serving and not fucking listening to.

I know and have worked with many different police officers and forces including those outside of the UK and to a man or woman retired or those who have left the Police prior to retirement they despair at the current standard, aims and attitude of the police in the UK. These are people who were proud to be police officers, proud to pull on their uniform and serve the public now they are constantly embarrassed by what the profession they chose has become. Most of them say they wouldn't bother reporting anything to the Police these days and they don't trust them, surely that alone should be ringing loud alarm bells? The Police in the UK have drifted far from their core objectives and responsibilities and the public see this, know this and are, rightly so, not happy about it. The rot runs deep and it has happened progressively over the last decades. The public want the Police to get back to the core principles of the job, why is that so hard to understand or accept?

I agree with the previous poster re the College of Policing, the blame also needs to rest on the shoulders of those high-ups in the Police who are too busy collecting plaudits from the likes of Stonewall, a political lobby group that should be nowhere near the Police which is supposed to be politically neutral.

The near constant tales of Police officers in the media regarding their appalling behaviour - the Bibaa Henry and Nicole Henry case being only one recent example taking photos of the crime scene and the victims, the language used about the victims - seriously what kind of people are being recruited into the Police?

Police doing the Macarena at a political event (which is what Pride is) absolutely is an issue. It’s not just “oh look, police being approachable and fun”. How about the Police joining in crowd activities at a EDL rally? After all, they’d just be joining in and having a bit of fun….

No matter what the reasons behind why police resourcing is constrained, I have no faith in the police right now. I gave up ringing 101 for drug dealing in our school car park, as no one ever answered, but when someone called the police about a parish council issue, they sent people round to investigate within 48hrs - it transpired that the complainant was mates with an inspector.

combined with the news from the Met, Lancashire police and the Rotherham abuse cases, it’s not difficult to see why people don’t trust the police.

twitter.com/SurreyPolice/status/1565347997944205315

Okay, @stillvicarinatutu and @Felix125 have a look at that twitter feed and then click on the ripx4nutmeg one in it. Now tell me and the rest of us what we all see as wrong with (1) the initial event and (2) the wording of the Surrey Police statement - I'll give you a clue the person who is being described as 'marginalised' is (a) the victim of the signs or (b) the person holding the sign?

Note also that the statement refers to gender identity when there is no such thing in law, no mention of sex or women naturally.

Now tell me that there is no fucking bias in the Police.

Two other recent incidents - the Get the L Out lesbians at Cardiff Pride - removed from the parade, did the police also speak to the person who was shouting abuse at them and ratcheting up the ante? Don't be silly. KJK's Let Women Speak in Bristol - did the Police remove, arrest or do anything to the thugs all clad in black that were intimidating and harassing the women at that particular event? Don't be silly.

Now tell me that there is no fucking bias in the Police.

I'd do away with all partisan flags and promotions: no marking of any special 'days': no allegiance to any minority community. No coloured lights outside the police station, no lanyards, no rainbows.

Me too, pattihews. It's divisive. The police are supposed to be there for everyone.

I was brought up to respect the police. My mum would always have takem the police's word over mine. Everyone I knew was the same. I brought up my children similarly. But it's up to the police whether they keep our respect or lose it.

I believed the police over Hillsborough. Who would have thought they could have done what they did? What about the police who lied over Andrew Mitchell and plebgate for political reasons. If they're prepared to do that over a reasonable powerful figure, the public can't help but wonder what lies they're happy to tell about the rest of us.

How many man hours did the police get out of investigating Carl Beech's fantasies? How many people were told that they couldn't have crimes committed against them investigated because of the hours devoted to Beech? And were any police officers sanctioned over the lives they'd destroyed following claimed which were clearly preposterous? No, none were. No one held to account.

We've heard the recording of a woman being advised in her own home to take down a poster from her window that was perfectly legal but a PCOS didn't like it. What happens if the woman has a "support the Lib Dems" poster and a PCOS doesn't like it? Will it be OK for police to decide what political posters are allowed to be put up?

The police force has to police us all fairly and equally and the citizens should be able to believe that this is happening. Therefore it shouldn't be necessary to take the knee or wear rainbow colours. Because black peoole, and gay people and trans people, should automatically know that their legal rights are being respected whatever. But if, say, an officer shows allegiance to the BLM, a political organisation, by taking the knee, no matter how worthy that might be, they automatically raise suspicion in the mind of others who don't support the BLM. Even if those people are thugs, they too are still entitled to be treated fairly and how can they believe that if they've just seen the arresting officer show allegiance to the 'opposing side'.

But how can people be confident in anything when a police force can put together a poster saying being an offensive is an offence and no officer or employee who is involved in that, from the design process all the way through approval, manufacture and even mounting and photographing it, manages to spot that's crap? If the police don't even know the laws they're policing, what hope is there?

Honestly, I'm proud that our police officers are known to be approachable. That they're helpful with the public. I realise the vast majority of officers just want to do their job well and go home. But ultimately the public can only judge what's going on from what they see and hear in the media and its frustrating that there's time to have seminars on how to speak to trans people but not time to investigate young people being kicked and beaten and giving their hair pulled out. Or that it might cause offence to investigate vulnerable young people being groomed and raped and having their present and future lives blighted. Honestly it's this that is destroying the publics respect, not the day to day work regular officers do.

Hear hear!

It's interesting to see posters say that they are associated with the police and the comments on this thread are invalid because attacking a system, be that the police, the management of the police, or the College of Policing, is an attack on them personally.

I can't help but draw a parallel with the assertion that objecting to gender identity ideology is invalid because it is an attack on trans people personally.

It appears that the police and CPS are ignoring thefts of goods worth hundreds of pounds from shops even when there is CCTV evidence. In one of the cases cited in the news report (archived copy below) reasons for not bringing charges included the fact that 'the personal circumstances of the defendant - a transgender woman - contributed to the theft, as her transition had been “extremely challenging” '.
web.archive.org/web/20220902154254/www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shoplifters-being-let-off-even-when-caught-on-cctv-stealing-goods-worth-hundreds/ar-AA11kl9F

That decision lies with the CPS, not the police. Two separate bodies with different agendas.

This is pure Stonewall-washing:

twitter.com/LouiBaxter/status/1565411660759703558?t=ArpPLn1xqbmhl3T0uGptMQ&s=19

Have you seen Surrey Police's EDI Policy?
They think that the Equality Act is "outdated"

surrey.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/…

I dont know about the higher echelons - but I and the majority of the people I work with do not care if you identify as a fishfinger- if a victim of a criminal offence it would be dealt with and if they are being ridiculous would be told so.

I think - from my own experience now that perhaps the younger in service officers may be scared to say "no" if anyone pulls out a claim of discrimination, given that lost officers are working alone , dealing with the incidents they do have some autonomy in how to deal with something- but now if someone accuses you of not investigating something because of race , or sex , or gender identity, or religion, or ethnicity- they think they'll be dealt with differently. Now I have enough wool on my back to say "no " to those claims and look at whether an actual criminal offence has been committed. I would imagine for a new in service inexperienced officer who might be scared to offend - they might try placate someone by "having a word" - and I think policing is getting harder to recruit for. Now you have to have a degree for that 19k salary, 24/7 shift work job that is pretty much thankless.
The media has been mentioned- the media is often biased itself against the police quick to report a mistake or bad policing, ignoring the hundreds of incidents a day of good policing. They don't make good headlines tho .
The inquest into the death of little
Olivia Pratt-korbel opened with the coroner thanking the police who tried so hard to save her . That would never have been reported if not brought up at the inquest.
The media paints one picture- I see something different however.

Ironically @stillvicarinatutu in your quote you use the completely nonsensical term gender identity which has NO basis or protection in law, Stonewall really has done a number on the Police.

Yes the media reports incidents of bad and appalling policing but the media also praises the police, however, these days there are definitely more incidents of bad policing in the press that's not the fault of the press it lies squarely with the Police if they weren't behaving that way then it wouldn't be reported on would it?

The incidents I and others have mentioned on here, we all know that if in any one of those incidents women/feminists had been doing the abusing, threatening, shouting the reaction from the Police would have been totally different as evidenced by Get the L Out. If outside a Trans Conference women had done what TRA activists did their feet wouldn't have touched the ground so quick would they have been removed and thrown in the back of a Police van. Am I wrong about that? The current optics say not, if I am wrong then that is a distinct failure on the part of the Police that that is the perception being given and it is being given by their own actions, statements, tweets, etc.

NightlyStroll same here, brought up to respect the Police and to always find a policeman if I needed help. I did respect, admire, trust and support them that is why it is so depressing and frankly gutting that I no longer do, and you can't pin the reasons for that loss of faith on me @stillvicarinatutu and @Felix125. If the Police want that back not just from me but from a huge swathe of the public then they at all levels within the Police need to do the work to get it back.

Yes you are wrong about that - the police are there to keep the peace at rallies . People are allowed to express thoughts and have a freedom of speech - if that crosses a line into being a criminal offence the police would or should act .regardless of who they are .

Forgive my ignorance on using a term I know little about but stonewall have had no bearing on my police career what so ever - never had training from them or by them and yeah I'll get slated for this but I don't know who they are or what they have to do with policing- because for me - they don't

The poster who said police should not engage with th public at pride because the comparison was made to the EDL rallies :

Firstly - there are very many lesbian women , straight women and gay men now in the police . The police is made up of the society we serve .

There are no police officers affiliated to the English defence league! We are vetted very heavily - if any officer was connected to a banned organisation or similar they simply would not be in the police .
I've policed rallies where edl and anti fascism groups have clashed . I see no comparison to these protests and a good natured pride event . The protests I've policed - you are not there to say who is right and wrong - you are there to allow people their say , and to prevent fighting , deal with any offences that occur no matter which side their on . Pride events aren't a protest - they're policed in the same way a concert or community event is policed .

The issue I have here is that if I were to say the wrong thing either way - someone will be offended. So - for me - it's stay neutral , police what you see happening in front of you regardless of who or what cause they support and deal with criminal offences committed by anyone . And love us or hate us - agree or disagree.

The issue I have here is that if I were to say the wrong thing either way - someone will be offended. So - for me - it's stay neutral , police what you see happening in front of you regardless of who or what cause they support and deal with criminal offences committed by anyone . And love us or hate us - agree or disagree.

That's just perfectly all that the public want from the police!! They don't want to see officers go on one knee, lighting their station up in rainbow colours, using slogans that are legally wrong. They just want to feel that they've been treated fairly by an unbiased professional.

People want to respect the police because they rely on them to feel safe and protected. Like I've said, the vast majority of people are brought up to respect the police but it's down to the police and their behaviours whether they keep that respect or not.

badbaduncle
OK - but where do we get the resources from to police the parks? We have 3 large parks in our area - which will need at least 10 officers per park. So there's the shift gone.

Who's left to deal with domestic safeguarding, missing from homes, mental health breakdowns which need police guarding them, sudden deaths, welfare concerns etc etc

like I said before - we run out of resources really quickly.

What should we do - go back to not doing any risk assessments at DV incidents? No safeguarding? Let missing from homes find there own way home? Take a chance that mental health incidents will 'sort them selves out'

This is what is tying police up and why we can't get to jobs that are coming in as routine.

Enb76
Paperwork - who else will do it?
If we catch the burglar that broke in to your home, you would want justice - well a case file needs to be put together and these are often huge.

Risk assessments following all the 'lessons will be learned' conclusions, need to be done. The list is endless and can't easily be solved.
There is no one else to do it other than the officer.

But surely, @Felix125, you pay admin people to do your paperwork? Don't you put reports, etc, onto a dictaphone for someone else to type up or extract info to fill out forms. You'd then just read it and sign it. If it's regularly taking a whole shift for one officer to sort out one domestic assault allegation, then something is badly wrong with how that's being organised.

Of course we do t our admin staff to do our case files etc ! We have no admin staff ! Where would the money for that come from ? Plus you as the case officer will your job inside out and back to front - so when CPS start asking questions that only you can answer it would just cause delays .
Omg I have to smile at that - don't you have admin staff 😂. Yeah in cloud cuckoo land maybe .

The reality is we don't have screen wash for the cars , pst winter I couldn't get to an immediate before defrosting a car and I had to scrape the windscreen with the plastic log book - we haven't even got basic equipment- the thought of having admin staff when we don't even have the basics shows how much the public don't know about the state of policing.

And yet the budget is always there for stonewall training, rainbow cars, lanyards & all associated paraphernalia

does it not massively piss you off that you have so little resources but so much money is spaffed on the above?

If anyone thinks this report, from a think tank well known for politically-motivated reports, is anything approaching fair and balanced, they’re only deluding themselves.

I have no direct links to the police but, FWIW, I think 99% of the police do a very difficult job incredibly well, given the very limited resources available and utterly thankless nature of their work.

Unsurprisingly, everyone thinks “their crime” should be a number one priority for the police. Unless we want to give police several times their current funding (and be taxed accordingly), that can’t happen.