How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

[JellySaurus]

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

This is beginning to piss me off

everyone on this thread knows that there are good police officers that uphold the law to the best of their ability and are a credit to the force. They see the most horrific things and keep going

they also know there are racist officers, sexist officers, officers that take pictures of crime scenes that they shouldn’t, they know there are officers that abuse their children and wives, there are lazy officers, stupid officers and jobsworth officers

we know these things because police officers are as human as the rest of us and are fallible

the only people who don’t seem to know this are the officers on the thread

the discussion is about police as an organisation not about any of the officers on this thread or my cousins or my uncle or my brother

I believe we made it clear (as day) that this is about bad laws and the ability to use them to game the system against people that speak out. And that there is no comeback or right of appeal.

Nobody said every officer is corrupt.

Perhaps just one officer will think twice about issuing a non crime hate incident report just on someone's say so after this thread. It is all we can do until this shoddy law is repealed.

I believe we made it clear (as day) that this is about bad laws and the ability to use them to game the system against people that speak out

i thought everyone made it clear as well!

They're kinda damned if they do and dammed if they don't tbh.

If a 6'2 woman with a beard headbutts a gc feminist it will quickly turn to "where were the police?"

If what happened in Bristol is anything to go by Toki standing right there refusing to get involved

twitter.com/aspbristol/status/1538569775248547843?s=46&t=4wBs4O1XaE8eQf865ypnxg

I will be asking for clarification as to the recording of non crime hate incidents having looked at the Harry millar case in more depth and I am also going to question the updating of our protected characteristics which I've been told include gender identity.

Please do t pour scorn on my apology- I am listening.

If you would like my pwrsoec on policing protests I'll happy partake.

I will be asking for clarification as to the recording of non crime hate incidents having looked at the Harry millar case in more depth and I am also going to question the updating of our protected characteristics which I've been told include gender identity.

That's really wonderful. I'm definitely not going to pour scorn on that! I'm very relieved to see you are just as shocked by that recording as everyone else here was.

It's easy for me to say this of course because I'm only sauntering on to the thread now and haven't been caught up in the communications which left everyone frustrated. But I'm super glad you are planning to do these things!

I can see you have a lot of loyalty to the police and that's totally understandable and completely necessary, when you are doing a difficult job in a hostile environment and you need to have each other's backs. But I think in this case your loyalty to your own stopped you from listening properly when you felt the police were being attacked ! I do hope that if enough ordinary police officers become aware this bulllshit is going on that they'll want to put a stop to it, so more power to you.

What tasteful said…

Thank you @stillvicarinatutu 💐

Kudos to you for your last posts @stillvicarinatutu .

Honestly- yes I have loyalty to my colleagues. The ones I work with are fabulous. I've had no stonewall training so all of that was news to me .

This job has to be honest shit on my times than enough. I was refused annual leave when my own mother died by an idiot Sgt who told me it was a disciplined organisation and I'd have to go see her after work .

I'm only loyal to people who deserve it .

But yes that recording absolutely embarrassed and horrified me .

And I will be emailing legal services in regard to both the recording on non crime hate incidents and protected characteristics.
Despite what some posters on here think - yep I'm a pc but I am also a woman . (Really - I am - my tits and hormonal menopausal rages can attest to that 😊)

There are a few things that don't sit well with me within our organisation but I also do have to be careful as I do need my job . However - if no one points out the ruling on the Harry millar case - or at least a asks what this means for recording hate and non hate crimes then common sense will continue to go out of the window and truly - I am all for common sense in policing .

I really think that both sides could learn something here from each other - but we have to keep talking and not let prejudices override the fact we are essentially on the same side .
I am sorry if my comments at times appear hostile but I have frustrations too trying to explain some of how policing works - I've basically echoed everything Felix says about how things get reported, how people lie to get a response they want , how statistics are recorded etc . Let's not fight each other . Let's talk . Let's learn . Let's listen . That we we might affect some positive changes .

Can anyone link me to the ACTUAL protected characteristics as defined ? It's not something I've ever needed to worry about .

Google says one of the protected characters is gender reassignment?

Is this what's meant by gender identity?

I will be asking for clarification as to the recording of non crime hate incidents having looked at the Harry millar case in more depth and I am also going to question the updating of our protected characteristics which I've been told include gender identity.

That's great, well done.

Thanks, stillvicar - much appreciated!

Yes and no. There is no protected characteristic or any characteristic of 'gender identity' which is something made up by Stonewall et al.

These are the actual characteristics:

age
gender reassignment
being married or in a civil partnership
being pregnant or on maternity leave
disability
race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

The only time gender is mentioned is in respect of gender reassignment it is not a euphemism for sex and the sex characteristic cannot and should not be altered to read gender.

Stonewall have been directing organisations to get ahead of the Law and use gender and gender identity, however, there is no prospect of that becoming Law anytime soon so if anywhere uses those categories they are not ahead of the Law they are breaking the Law.

The gender reassignment bit requires more explanation and is frequently misquoted and misrepresented and is used as de-facto self-id which is categorically NOT the Law.

Further explanation if you want it..it's heavy going though!

So if I point out to my bosses that the term is gender reassignment and not gender identity....

Does that actually get anybody anywhere?

It sounds like if I as a woman decided I was goi g to reassign myself as male - the result is the same ?

(I aren't . !) is it just down to the wording?

I mean I can point that out and look like A smart arse but does it actually achieve anything?

I think the more critical thing is the Harry millar ruling if I'm honest and what the implications are for recording non crime hate incidents. I have to say when this came in we all collectively groaned . (My colleagues and I)
But if there is something to challenge on that - as there does appear to be - I will ask those questions.
Sometimes we just accept things as "they way it is " and I admit that now .
But I have always had issues with certain things- especially non crimes where there is still a "victim " and a "suspect " . I voiced concern over that in my probation period more than 12 years ago.

No, gender reassignment is not gender identity, Unless you've been stonewalled.

I do love a police officer googling the protected characteristics as if they have no knowledge of the European Court of Human Rights which provides the guidance for the Equality Act, which lists the protected characteristics.

Small steps I guess. My mind has been blown on this thread.

My mind has also been blown .

Please don't hold that against me .

I know all the human rights - but as the protected characteristics haven't had any relevance to me in the job I admit - I've taken little notice .

I've often thought of speaking to the fed about sex discrimination over the fitness test. In the military and other worldwide police forces the test is staggered to take into account sex and age .
Ours isn't .

I'm really not a knuckle dragging Neanderthal.

But sometimes- my big mouth and lack of diplomacy has landed me in bother . With the bosses . And police standards and discipline.
When I've lost my rag at the lack of common sense and said so .
I need to take a more disciplined approach to this ....please bear with me .

The government has only just this year started reforming our relationship with the ECHR to give it less influence. I wonder how that will go.

I wonder that too TikTok

It's a double edged sword .

...please bear with me.

Absolutely!

Sorry toki got name wrong

I I'll be asking the questions.
I just am often a Thorne in the side of my superiors so I need to not be quite so blatant as to get myself into (more) bother .
I think legal services would be able to help me clarify things. If I take this to my superiors I'll be seen as a pain in the arse and if this hasn't been widely acknowledged they wont know anyway .

Let's just keep talking.

My experience ( not in the met ) is no stonewall training, no rainbow lanyard or car stickers -

The guys (and women) I work with would laugh at that . I don't think our force is very "woke" . But the whole non crime hate incident thing does need addressing . I think what I will do is link the court of appeal ruling to an email to our legal services and ask for clarity on how that ruling impacts on how we record those incidents. Let's see . I for one would welcome not having to spend 45 minutes recording nothing of note that's for sure .

Felix
"Officers don't have to frighten or be nasty"

Didn’t notice that was optional from what read of The Police code of conduct, also nothing that found reading up about PCSO responsibilities and duties. This is not something that is joe public responsibility to know in & outs of someone job position, just like if those Nurses, Mechanics, Gas Engineers etc. Do hope if anyone like myself who didn’t know now aware (Seems like it was only me).

From what have read up only The Police Chief Constable can give PCSO’s extra ‘powers’ but they STILL not have all authority, ‘powers’ of Police Officers who can arrest you. PCSO can only detain and make citizen arrest like any members of joe public. Surprised you mentioned about video as would have thought you know that PCSO wear body cam’s which should be on at all times.

Please do correct me if got anything wrong and link me to source, as still lots of material am reading up on.

Stillvicarinatutu
Shame you left but if it helps lots of us had our arse handed on plate at some point over the years somewhere on MN. Didn’t think any replies to you was anywhere like that. Honestly you should see AIBU that like hunger games (well used to be, I got the pedantic corner responses once it was brutal).

Asktheoracle
I found from page 11 onwards lots of helpful posts relating to freedom of Expression just in case you missed them.

Question, how many more incidents need to happen that MNters mentioned in this thread and all other threads before stop all this NAPLT, as have no doubt women here know a lot more about other incidents where for whatever reasons haven’t been publicly disclosed. My sticker incident is nowhere near as awful and horrific as to what Jennifer Swayne was put through.

Noticed that many posts in regards to non-related crime (previously would have been hate crime), and DBS checks etc have been dismissed as non-issues, it most certainly is! And it certainly does worry me about implications.

All this stuff happening to people should never even happened to be hate crime to become non crime and still marked on records but sold as ‘preventing crime’ No, I done nothing wrong nor am going to be victim of ‘maybe crime’ no, no, you dump that on whoever might comit criminal offence.

Down to discretion is concerning and not heard of until read here, is this case of depends on person on charge if they having bad day or not? why not consistent rules across the board of all Police.

As for priority and Police strapped for cash, no. Where is crime so low that untowards ped can ever be warranted. My Police force isn’t directly paying into Stonewall Membership but our Police, Fire & Crime Commission is £3k that cheap compared to what other org etc paying in membership.

Glad still wasn’t allowed to post at 5am and spend more time reading threads as have most of today until finally figured how be allowed to, because had forgot the kind of attention women and their opinions over here get all sorts of attention so scaled back info regarding my current matter.

Did get one of my SAR’s back this evening, the other one waiting on includes request for all body cam relating to me and my address between certain dates.

Reason wanted body cam was purely for my benefit it's like official verification, plus sound will be clearer. Have no intentions of posting to prove to anyone hence why have even checked if posting would breach anything.

Also have some strategy in mind (not that only reason why complaint taking so long for me to do, although definitely be done way before 12months time limit up).

Having the data controller requesting cam recordings on this occasion is not going to go unnoticed, unless word has it, I’m thick as mince and tolerates this crap. I know that all PCSO non incidents cam has to be disposed of after 31days? My SAR's request was put in within few days, and so data trail is there.

If no recording exists or deleted why? So much to lead of this either way.

Info about who what when logged in system to check/find out personal info of me know won't get but no harm in asking (again data trail) also my complaint will flag up all sorts and someone might check log in records so say for example PCSO had personal vendetta and used system for own purpose...that is straight up misconduct. But I’m not leaving anything that give room for if and buts.

Down to discretion is concerning and not heard of until read here, is this case of depends on person on charge if they having bad day or not? why not consistent rules across the board of all Police.

As for priority and Police strapped for cash, no. Where on this planet is crime so low that untowards pedos can ever be warranted.

My Police force isn’t directly paying into Stonewall Membership but our Police, Fire & Crime Commission is £3k cheap compared to what other org etc paying.

Glad couldn’t post at 5am and continued just reading threads as have most of today until as forgot the kind of attention women with opinions here get so scaled back info regarding my current matter.

Sorry know you women know all this stuff but in case any lurkers.