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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?

1000 replies

JellySaurus · 31/08/2022 11:48

Home Secretary should reform failing police forces - think tank https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-627323366^

Very pleased to see this statement, and the BBC reporting it, but is it going to make a difference?

How significant is this report that claims the public feels police officers are "more interested in being woke than solving crimes"?
OP posts:
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14
asktheoracle · 08/09/2022 03:13

if you have a point, make it.

My point is that the thread is about freedom of expression and speech. Article 10 of the human rights act.

Yet it seems that freedom of expression has been frowned on if the poster has not expressed a view in keeping with the majority of other posters on this subject.

That's my point .
Anyway I am on holiday so shouldn't even be looking at mn

Best wishes

AlisonDonut · 08/09/2022 06:38

Interesting that you mention the Stazi.

I believe the judge in the Harry Miller case reminded us that we have never had one in the UK, and this law allows the Police to operate as if we do.

pattihews · 08/09/2022 07:39

asktheoracle · 08/09/2022 03:13

if you have a point, make it.

My point is that the thread is about freedom of expression and speech. Article 10 of the human rights act.

Yet it seems that freedom of expression has been frowned on if the poster has not expressed a view in keeping with the majority of other posters on this subject.

That's my point .
Anyway I am on holiday so shouldn't even be looking at mn

Best wishes

Well this is a first. Someone who apparently spends time lurking on MN and yet ends each post with Best wishes. Are you in the police too, asktheoracle?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 08/09/2022 08:10

Yet it seems that freedom of expression has been frowned on if the poster has not expressed a view in keeping with the majority of other posters on this subject

yeah, no….I didn’t get that at all from this thread

people are pissed cos they kept getting told that stuff didn’t happen when they know it happened

a thread from officers saying ‘this is what should happen, this is the law, if what you say is true then this shoukd have happened and this is why we have to do stuff that civilians don’t understand the point of’ would be interesting

it didn’t happen on this thread although i did find felix posts interesting to start with and sympathised with the other officer whose name escapes me

ScreamingMeMe · 08/09/2022 08:47

Not really engaging with the thread topic and flooding the thread with long speils about yourself may well be freedom of expression. Doesn't mean it's not annoying or a waste of our time, and we can use OUR freedom of expression to say so.

This could have been an interesting thread if some parties hadn't been so defensive.

thedancingbear · 08/09/2022 09:08

asktheoracle · 08/09/2022 03:13

if you have a point, make it.

My point is that the thread is about freedom of expression and speech. Article 10 of the human rights act.

Yet it seems that freedom of expression has been frowned on if the poster has not expressed a view in keeping with the majority of other posters on this subject.

That's my point .
Anyway I am on holiday so shouldn't even be looking at mn

Best wishes

I don't see any challenge to freedom of expression here at all. People can, and have, posted whatever they like. The fact that there is a consensus is neither here nor there.

This board has (sometimes, I think, fairly) been decried as a bit of an echo chamber. But that's not a freedom of expression issue unless dissenting posts and posters are removed or banned. Which absolutely hasn't happened.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/09/2022 09:33

But that's not a freedom of expression issue unless dissenting posts and posters are removed or banned.

not even then, unless there’s nowhere the dissenters can express their opinions or share relevant information. No one needs to say their bit on this small, heterodox corner of the Internet. Except probably for those of us who’d be banned off Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook and myriad other smaller sites for our controversial (although widely held) opinions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 13:06

Yet it seems that freedom of expression has been frowned on if the poster has not expressed a view in keeping with the majority of other posters on this subject.

I used my own freedom of expression to point out to the poster in question where they were talking bobbins, and badly patronising us. Have a nice day!

pattihews · 08/09/2022 13:15

I think the problem was that women would cite cases like Harry Miller and Marion Millar, cases they were very well acquainted with, and were told that would never happen and that they were wrong. That's not a way one would expect any reasonable adult to respond and the fact that they were police officers made it extra troubling.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 13:20

People actually quoted from the cases and were told they were wrong based on a skim read the poster made of our posts, when they frequently misunderstood what they were reading. And the implication was that we didn't understand the law.

It was extraordinarily frustrating and I say that as a person who has been in a lot of extremely frustrating conversations on these topics both here and elsewhere online and offline.

pattihews · 08/09/2022 14:31

Yes, it was 'didn't happen', 'can't have happened', 'if it happened there must be a reason no one knows about', 'must have been a PCSO' (as if that makes any difference to the person being charged), 'it wouldn't have happened if it had been me.' No awareness of or concern for the underlying issue — that some police are acting on an ideological basis.

It was a depressing to see that the police aren't critical and curious thinkers and couldn't shift their view based on the evidence.

AlisonDonut · 08/09/2022 14:31

However they understood the law and its implications the split second I asked for their name and badge number for their offensive hate speech towards us.

Weird huh?

Felix125 · 08/09/2022 17:07

thedancingbear · 07/09/2022 07:24

@Felix125

the reporting person, who has embellished the initial report - will have to continue this on when the police arrive... [they] will know that the only thing visible is the sticker in the window - so they will have to invent something else which will makes the police attend the address.

Any evidence for this?

No, thought not.

You're just making shit up now. You're not worth bothering with. But you are confirming every single thing people already know and suspect about you and your misogynist buds.

No i don't have any evidence of what was reported - mind you, neither do you

I'm basing this on 22 years service of dealing with calls to service - what are you basing your judgments on?

So you're saying the initial report to police would have been:

"I'd like to make a compliant about a small sticker in a house window which is not saying anything abusive or committing any offences'

And you're saying that a call taker would have put a job on for this. Then a dispatcher would have also agreed that it needs a police response. Then a comms operator would think the same and send a double crewed unit (as you suggested) to it?

Or do you think that perhaps something else might have been reported....maybe

ScreamingMeMe · 08/09/2022 18:24

Oh ffs Felix there are recordings and transcripts of the sticker incident! It's been discussed at length on here. Haven't we already linked it in here?

Felix125 · 08/09/2022 18:33

DdraigGoch
Its a case that a shift of officers will have a few double crewed ones and the rest single crewed.
So coms will try and send double crewed units to say domestics, fights etc etc

But the double crewed units are also available for other jobs which may not need a double crewed unit if they are available

Comms will just look at who is available and send the next available unit to something - double crewed or not.

I would suspect that something like this, which clearly doesn't merit a double crewed unit, would be a case that it was the only crew available - and if comms are trying to get jobs of the event queue, they will get sent if there is nothing more urgent at the time.

Not sure why the followup by the PCSO - but i have said they were wrong to do this

And yes - a PCSO can make a citizens arrest - that's why i said they have the same powers as you do. But they do not have the same powers of arrest as a police officer.

AlisonDonut
Yes officers can read three words - but do you know what was said to the officers by the reporting person? Do we know what this was? Are we privy to all the information they had?

The tiky box thing - its not a case of 'crime solved' as a case of 'job closed'. Its only crime solved if it gets a suspect to the point of charge. Otherwise its 'job closed' - so sudden deaths, car crashes, fallen trees across a road, missing people, false call with good intent etc. They will be loads of sub categories a job can be closed as - but it will be 'job closed'. This then drops off the event queue which comms have to dispatch jobs from.

The safeguarding picture with the dogs - clearly not safeguarding. What was the officers deployment at that time? Were they policing an event? Were they town centre foot patrol officers? Were they at the start of a night time economy patrol? Were they walking to court and a member of the public asked for a photo? were they en-route to a job or a crime enquiry?

Ereshkigalangcleg
People do all sorts of particularly awful legal and consensual things in their homes. Are you advocating for them all to be put on a register?

But if the police come into contact with it - do you think it should be recorded somewhere or just ignored?

Why is whether a man has ethnic dolls he role plays grim things with at home where no one else can see him, anything to do with his ability to work in a school? It's fascinating to see how much police think they should be able to monitor and interfere in private lives

So you would be happy sending your young kids to that school then?
He openly admits he has a fascination with child like dolls and plays out scenarios of violence & sex against them - and he is happy to tell police this. You would not want any of this to appear on any police report though?

So, if something bad happened to a child at that school by him, you would say there was nothing could have been done to prevent it. Even though police had this information and weren't able to disclose it?

You can't see that as a problem?

Perhaps you will also grant him a firearms licence - as nothing would flag up on any checks either. Perhaps he has a hatred of certain ethnic groups too, has loads of posters around his describing such things. So you alright with granting him a gun?

No - were are not spending all our time on non-crime
I have said - several times on here - that the vast majority of our time is spent on safeguarding, and guarding prisoners, missing from homes etc

But no one has been able to answer my question

Allthegoodnamesarechosen
The park job where you say 'no action was taken' - two were arrested and admitted to their involvement - unless you mean a different job.

And there will be loads of jobs we can't get to as we have no units free. We try our best to get to all emergency jobs - if they are graded as not an emergency, they will have to drop onto the queue and units sent as and when. This may drag on for weeks and often people are re-called and cancel the job.

Some burglaries can be done over the phone without an officer attending - not ideal I know - but you have to weigh up is there any actual merit, based on the initial call, in sending an officer to a burglary which has happened and no suspects on scene or crime scene to consider. And weighing that up against an ongoing DV

ScreamingMeMe
Safeguard the bottles of urine - obviously not
It appears to be cordoned off - was this part of a crime scene? Was it an event? Was it securing a building?

Isaidnoalready
Yes - you can share you DOB, you can also share your names with others - but there are ways in which sex offenders and such like can be tracked using them and similar information. Do you really think its that easy for a sex offender to leave prison and slip under the radar by just changing their name? If so, why do we have so many ex-convicts on the sex offenders register? How are probation able to monitor so many released prisoners?

pattihews
The sticker person wasn't upset by the officers - she was by the PCSO, and i have said the PCSO should not have gone back around.

And how do you want police to deal with stuff if we have to mindful that a person might be upset by the mere presence of a police officer.

"... i have taken a report of your compliant about the other person, but unfortunately we can't go a speak with them just in case our presence scares them"

asktheoracle
I agree - it is a discussion forum. A place to discuss things.
But I often get told to 'go away' when people disagree with me or that i am mansplaning. or that they are going to just skip past my posts.

For me - you're very welcome to join the debate!

Felix125 · 08/09/2022 18:36

ScreamingMeMe · 08/09/2022 18:24

Oh ffs Felix there are recordings and transcripts of the sticker incident! It's been discussed at length on here. Haven't we already linked it in here?

So send me the link of the initial call to the police, the reports from the call taker and that of the dispatcher and the report (or Body Worn Video) of the officer's at the reporting person's house

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 18:59

But if the police come into contact with it - do you think it should be recorded somewhere or just ignored?

I honestly don't think it's anything to do with anyone else. Why pry into peoples private lives? It's none of anyone's business what sordid things people do with dolls in the privacy of their homes.

ScreamingMeMe · 08/09/2022 19:01

Felix125 · 08/09/2022 18:36

So send me the link of the initial call to the police, the reports from the call taker and that of the dispatcher and the report (or Body Worn Video) of the officer's at the reporting person's house

Is the women's testimony not good enough for you? The officers didn't mention anything else, just the sticker, according to her. I'm sure she would have mentioned it if they had!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4611524-woman-told-by-psco-that-her-thinking-is-wrong-and-she-needs-to-educate-herself

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 19:04

He openly admits he has a fascination with child like dolls and plays out scenarios of violence & sex against them - and he is happy to tell police this.

Now you are embellishing it wildly, aren't you? Before you were trying to make a laboured case for recording non crime hate incidents, so they were just "dolls of non white background" implying he was racist. Not child dolls. How much drip feeding are you going to do?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 19:07

So, if something bad happened to a child at that school by him, you would say there was nothing could have been done to prevent it. Even though police had this information and weren't able to disclose it?

You can't see that as a problem?

Answer my question about whether I should be able to report my child's teacher to the police for watching hardcore porn at home. It's misogynistic in the extreme, he shouldn't be teaching young girls.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 19:13

Is the women's testimony not good enough for you?

When apparently the testimony of some arsehole who phoned up with a vexatious complaint was.

AlisonDonut · 08/09/2022 19:28

Yes officers can read three words - but do you know what was said to the officers by the reporting person? Do we know what this was? Are we privy to all the information they had?

None of that matters when the two officers stand outside a house and read a sticker does it?

They can surely to goodness read the words and work out that it isn't in any way a threat and just walk away.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 19:29

He's implying, I think that there was a backstory involved that we don't know about which meant that they had to talk to her.

stillvicarinatutu · 08/09/2022 19:29

Hello again

I've only come back to say I've listened on Twitter to the Bella doe / pcso exchange.

I just want to say I listened with jaw dropping horror.

I am truly sorry if my comments came across as if I did not believe these things happened.

They clearly do . I would very much like to hope that this was an isolated incident in which a community support officer completely and unacceptably overstepped and overreached massively and worryingly.

I am embarrassed listening to that exchange.

I do very much hope Bella doe is complaining.

People like that pcso do undermine the good work that people like me try to do . That pcso is completely and utterly without excuse - wrong .

The fact someone had already complained- (her herself?) that officers had concluded there was no case to answer - that she then believes she can ride rough shod over what the actual warranted police officers said go back is frankly embarrassing and yes - even to me - horrifying.

I'm sorry . I do defend my work because I am deeply passionate about it - but that Ps is actions are indefensible.

Accept my apology in the spirit in which it's meant .
I can't defend that exchange . I think the child involved in that exchange had a more reasoned argument than the pcso. This five is all a bad name and for that I'm sorry - but please don’t think the entire population of police officers out there think like that or act like that .
Sorry Flowers

stillvicarinatutu · 08/09/2022 19:32

Felix - listen to the recorded exchange- it is linked . It's embarrassing .

As if we needed more bad PR .

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