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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ladies Junior J Shield Semi Final #everythingsgoinggreatinireland

117 replies

miri1985 · 05/08/2022 21:55

Saw the photos of this on reddit (www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/wh2bl3/trans_inclusive_gaa_le_na_gaeil_aeracha/) and assumed it was a mixed game until I read here that this was the junior womens final
reduxx.info/irish-lgbtq-inclusive-football-team-with-transgender-player-wins-womens-junior-final/

"While Valentino’s exact age is unknown, in a 2021 panel interview he stated he had been playing sports for “over 30 years.” "

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FionaMacCool · 09/08/2022 10:39

Oh dear oh dear. That is really irresponsible. 😞😟

Abhannmor · 09/08/2022 11:14

So basically Novara are coaching confused young people on how to 'game the system '

Appallingly irresponsible. Let's hope they are held to account in some sane future.

Abhannmor · 09/08/2022 11:20

mrshoho · 08/08/2022 14:45

Not sure if this has been linked previously. A video from 8 years ago of a gender recognition hearing. 3.15 minutes in the Labour politician finding the issue wrt Sports 'Bizarre'. These highly educated fools laughed at the plausible consequences. IDIOTS.

Who is the Labour guy , @mrshoho ? He seems a bit incoherent and almost emotionally invested . Or maybe he's just thick 🤔

miri1985 · 09/08/2022 11:28

Abhannmor · 09/08/2022 11:20

Who is the Labour guy , @mrshoho ? He seems a bit incoherent and almost emotionally invested . Or maybe he's just thick 🤔

Thats Aodhan O'Riordan, his pet cause seems to be getting rid of single sex schools because he was bullied as a child in an all boys school, absolutely no thought to the positive impact single sex schooling can have on girls

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miri1985 · 09/08/2022 11:41

@KatVonlabonk happy to repost that article anywhere is there a specific autism and dysphoria thread?

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SolasAnla · 09/08/2022 12:58

After the High Court ruling in the Bell case in late 2020, the HSE wrote a letter of comfort for Crumlin hospital over its use of Tavistock. The hospital said it stopped using Tavistock after the Bell case but Irish patients have continued to be referred to Tavistock.

Just in case anybody missed what this was about.

The *letter of comfort& will be supplied to the hospitals insurance company. The comfort is that the Irish taxpayer will pick up any bill.

Hospital management will not have to worry about including a contingent liability in the financial statements nor plan to include litigation costs the hospital budget. Even with the best will in the world that puts that service, way way down the priority list of how to prevent financial disasters while running an underfunded hospital.

And the first line of defence is having good record keeping on management decisions, which they claim not to have so mature recollection will be laughed at in Court too.

Genesis1v27 · 09/08/2022 15:25

The HSE's Director for Integrated Care was on Morning Ireland this morning - incredibly, they are going to continue to refer children to Tavistock GIDS until it is shut.

RTÉ Morning Ireland: Criticism of the HSE's use of the Tavistock Clinic
RTÉ News: HSE defends patient referrals to UK's Tavistock clinic
Irish Times: Irish children with gender dysphoria may still be referred to UK’s Tavistock clinic, HSE says

Also, the GAA story is reported at Spiked:
www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/08/men-should-not-be-playing-in-womens-sports/

Genesis1v27 · 09/08/2022 15:37

The GAA story was also on Newstalk Breakfast this morning:

Ban on trans players in women's sport would be 'hugely negative' - TENI

h/t @Abhannmor on the Gender critical in Ireland thread.

miri1985 · 09/08/2022 17:41

Thanks for sharing that newstalk article @Genesis1v27 , its shocking to read the absolute the lack of care for womens safety, others feelings really do take priority. Personally I could give 2 figs if TENI are disappointed.

"They said there are “ways of managing who is marking who, who is playing against who so that it is played in a fair and equal way”."

🙄I have not played team sports since secondary school but even I know that in a match that would not work. Would it be a foul then if the trans player who was only supposed to mark X then tackles Y

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OhSister · 09/08/2022 19:14

Between the Liveline discussions, the TENI issues, Barbie K, the All Together Now festival, the LGFA story, and now the HSE/Tavistock revelations, it seems there is finally a real conversation breaking through in Ireland.

I wonder if a running thread on Ireland in this section would be useful, in addition to any single issue threads that people want to post, of course... I'm not suggesting it all be kept to one thread only, just that a running thread might be a useful thing especially for any newer posters with an interest in how things are developing in Ireland?

mrshoho · 09/08/2022 21:02

I think a thread here on Ireland would be useful, thanks @OhSister.

Reading the Newstalk article, Im gobsmacked! No thought whatsoever with regard to the women and girls. Also blatantly using the argument that it's only a handful of transwomen in sports and won't impact on the majority at all. Awful deceit.

Abhannmor · 10/08/2022 07:17

Yes @mrshoho . I call this the 2nd Line of Defence. The 1st being : ' This never happens'.
So the 2nd Line is it happens so rarely , it's practically a white crow incident.

Eventually it moves to : ' It's happening , so what. Get used to it you bigot'

Abhannmor · 10/08/2022 07:22

@Clymene Don't worry - I'm always cross posting stuff other ppl have said !

Actually the more often this is said the better

3timeslucky · 10/08/2022 14:17

PegasusReturns · 08/08/2022 09:00

Interesting the independent are not running the article with a picture. It’s so easy to be sympathetic when not faced with visual representation of what this means: a middle agreed bald bloke about to tackle a teen girl.

It is a real pity. So many people "get it" when they see a picture of a man either playing on women's teams or standing on a medal podium flanked by women. This case is particularly striking because the individual in question doesn't appear to have transitioned in any way other than name which is not what people assume to be the case for a person who says they are trans.

TheVeryThing · 10/08/2022 15:40

I've just seen that the IRFU are banning transgender women from women's rugby. This is good news & I hope other sporting organisations take note.

Genesis1v27 · 10/08/2022 16:03

TheVeryThing · 10/08/2022 15:40

I've just seen that the IRFU are banning transgender women from women's rugby. This is good news & I hope other sporting organisations take note.

That is great news. The restriction appears to apply to contact rugby, at all levels. Naturally, there is already pushback. The IRFU have made a sensible decision on this, and must be commended if they stick to it. I'd like to see the issue framed differently, as keeping rugby single-sex rather than "excluding" or "banning" anyone from sports they didn't belong in in the first place.

Some reports:
[https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2022/0810/1314991-irfu-bans-transgender-women-from-female-contact-rugby/ RTÉ: IRFU bans transgender women players from female contact rugby]
[https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irfu-confirms-transgender-women-will-be-banned-from-female-contact-rugby-competitions-for-upcoming-season-41902700.html Irish Independent: IRFU confirms transgender women will be banned from female contact rugby competitions for upcoming season]
[https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2022/08/10/irfu-excludes-transgender-women-from-participation-in-contact-rugby/ Irish Times: IRFU excludes transgender women from participation in contact rugby]
[https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2022/08/10/exclusion-of-trans-women-from-contact-rugby-sets-dangerous-precedent-advocates-say/ Irish Times: Exclusion of trans women from contact rugby sets ‘dangerous precedent’, advocates say]
[https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40937183.html Irish Examiner: IRFU bans transgender women from contact female rugby]
[https://www.the42.ie/irfu-bans-transgender-athletes-from-participating-in-womens-rugby-5837747-Aug2022/ The Journal: IRFU bans transgender women from contact female rugby]

RhannionKPSS · 10/08/2022 18:11

Excellent news!!!!

FionaMacCool · 10/08/2022 21:34

Could we re-word those headlines in any way, I wonder?

RTÉ: IRFU limits female contact rugby to female bodied people

Irish Independent: IRFU confirms that women will be protected during female contact rugby competitions for upcoming season
Irish Times: IRFU limits male bodied people from participation in female contact rugby
Irish Times: limits on trans women in female contact rugby sets a up "a culture of safety and dignity" , advocates say

Irish Examiner: IRFU limits female contact rugby to female bodied people
The Journal: IRFU limits female contact rugby to female bodied people

3timeslucky · 11/08/2022 08:21

@FionaMacCool I wish! RTE (Morning Ireland) stating this morning that transgender players are being banned from rugby. It is so irresponsible (and inaccurate).

FionaMacCool · 11/08/2022 08:54

@3timeslucky I didnt hear M.I. this morning.
Frankly, that is mis-reporting and bad journalism.
If they get this wrong, what else are they mis-reporting?

Abhannmor · 11/08/2022 09:39

Indeed. If our flagship news and current affairs programme gets such basic facts wrong , then what is the point of having a national broadcaster?

Instead we must depend upon right wing media like the Sunday Independent and Newstalk. Never expected to write those words. It is very sad and depressing.

VaddaABeetch · 11/08/2022 11:37

Can we complain to Rte, if we do it on Masse they have to least answer us? Why are we paying a licence fee?

Abhannmor · 11/08/2022 11:51

Good idea. Maybe Morning Ireland specifically
?

3timeslucky · 11/08/2022 19:30

Interesting to note that on RTE radio one news this evening the phrasing used had shifted to "required to play in the category in line with the sex recorded at birth". So that's progress!

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