Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

They are male. That’s the issue.

You’re right, he may just be a normal man, not trans at all, who just gets off on the idea of being around women.

Why would that make it any better though?

To be clear, you are arguing for the complete eradication of single-sex spaces?

Any soace ace that a trans woman uses by definition has a man in it.

You seem genuinely confused by what a “trans woman” is.

All our local swimming pools have mixed changing rooms and honestly don't see it as a problem.

But this is not a mixed changing room (or shouldn't be, if males kept out) and many women do have a problem with them.

At first I used to also think this, perhaps we should just have single cubicles, perhaps we should just have mixed changing rooms, perhaps it should be me, as a woman who has to go and find a single changing space. Perhaps I’m being too ‘unkind’, as what is the problem, why am I so uncomfortable, perhaps I just have to ‘get over myself’.

And as a woman, perhaps the onus is on me to completely 100% justify why having a male in my changing room makes me feel uncomfortable. And then justify again why feeling uncomfortable does not mean I see every trans person as a threat. Justify why privacy to me is important. Keep on justifying… whilst at the same time being called a bigot or transphobic. Be attacked and have no safe space to even air my discomfort.

Now I think, what on earth has happened that a few men, and their female ‘allies’ are pushing to enter single women’s spaces so hard, are pushing women’s boundaries? When I stop being on the back foot, it really is incredible how tolerance for someone’s fantasy of being a woman trumps being a woman.

How is that relevant to OP's mum who is using a single sex women's changing room that now has a male bodied person using it, despite that person having a private women's changing room offered to them for their sole use?

Some women don't mind getting changed in front of men, others do have a problem with it or are banned from doing it due to their religious beliefs.

What are the women who do have an issue with it or are banned from it supposed to do? No longer use the pool? So a Muslim woman's belief that she cannot undress in the presence of men is less important than a trans woman's belief that they have the right to access single sex women's spaces?

Why are natal women's feelings less important than those of trans women who wish to use single sex women's spaces?

I’d like to see evidence for stranger attacks. My understanding is that the stats come from attacks where normally the attacker was someone they knew

why would a random male sexually assault another male bodied person in a changing room. I’ve never heard of this happening

@wellhelloitsme I assume there are private cubicles like every swimming facility I've ever visited

If you bothered to read the thread you would know that there are only 4 cubicles, and most women change in the communal part. This is not a mixed sex changing arrangement and women didn't expect a male to wander through as they were getting undressed. A male who had already been assigned their own space to change.

OP has been very clear about this:

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area.

So let me get this straight, you think that OP's elderly mother and the other elderly women from her class should each arrive early enough that they have the chance to get changed into their swimming gear one at a time in the cubicles, then queue up in their towels after a class to use the cubicles available, because they're uncomfortable with the male bodied person insisting on using the single sex women's space? Just so that the male bodied person can use the space they want to?

You think that solution is the fairest and most sensible despite the alternative being them continuing to do what they've always done and be free to use the communal area, while the trans woman uses the private women's changing room they have been offered?

Really?

In the event of an attack (I too would like to see evidence) a transwoman is male bodied. They have:

More chance of fighting the attacker off

Less chance of rape

Less chance of a freeze trauma response from previous sexual assault

Less chance of an appease trauma response from a lifetime female social conditioning

Zero chance of becoming pregnant from rape.

And seriously, maddy68. If you're going to appropriate apartheid /racism against Irish & Black people (somewhat racist to do so) ....Well females are not the oppressors of males. Women ain't the "white people" in your example.

@wellhelloitsme apologies must've not seen or forgotten that but x

So with the full facts in mind, do you agree that the trans woman is unreasonable to use the single sex women's space and it would be right for them to use the private women's changing room they have been offered?

@wellhelloitsme yea I agree and sorry for not rereading the full facts before commenting

My local gym has communal changing rooms (male and female) with no cubicles. It's really not that unusual.

I regularly visit 3 different gyms. None have private changing cubicles.

@clpsmum

So this would be a big open plan space with some benches right?

Women, girls, men, boys all come out of the showers, strip their toggs off, dry off and put on dry clothing in the open plan space right?

Why are natal women's feelings less important than those of trans women who wish to use single sex women's spaces?

@wellhelloitsme this is another one of those questions that despite being asked repeatedly never gets answered, the lack of answer speaks volumes.

A useful and wise approach to a thread is to read the full facts before commenting, otherwise you have a tendency to look rather silly.

Good point. Those stats, from the USA, show the violence is largely against TW prositutes. Female prostitutes are also at risk of violence from clients or pimps — it’s a high-risk occupation. So, very little relevance to changing rooms.

And yet, had you read the thread, you’d understand that that’s not the case.

For those saying that the transwoman did nothing wrong and should be allowed in with the women, are you saying that the changing facilities should be single gender rather than single sex?

Most of what they are saying @MrsSteveMcDonald is that women are not allowed to have spaces catering to their needs for safety, privacy, dignity and comfort, men's wants trump all of that. Women's value is to be kind, be submissive, be welcoming - remembering always that the men who want to access their spaces are just so oppressed and have had such a hard time and just can't be expected to share with those of the same biological sex as them or indeed in an additional separate space provided for their exclusive use because well then they wouldn't be removing women's boundaries and forcing them to bow down and pander to them. Women as service humans, human shields and collateral damage. Nice.

As I said misogynist as fuck and no thought or consideration for women, men are their priority - exclude women, upset women, make women uncomfortable, feel unsafe, unhappy? - they couldn't give a toss.

@Dreamwhisper even purported to care about women and girls feelings - yeah right they do.