Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

@maddy68 read the thread or at least filter and read the OPs posts. It's been confirmed that the person is a transwoman, the person has been given an alternative womens changing room to use but has decided not to use it.

No woman has been asked to consent to a biological male seeing them naked but you seem to think they should just accept that.

Would you be happy if you were naked in a changing room and a man came in to have a look?

Why is it ok for MTF trans people to want not be with their own sex, but not ok for women to have a space free from the opposite sex when they are vulnerable?

Fuck right off with your accusation of racism.

Or do you think we should go back to segregation days? No Irish , no blacks etc.

What has that got to do with sex segregation?

Do you think all males should be allowed in female spaces?

@maddy68

Do you think she should be in the men's?

Yes, or in this case in the separate changing area provided for him by the management.

Or do you think we should go back to segregation days? No Irish , no blacks etc.

As others have said fuck off with your racism. Segregation on the basis of sex is what is being discussed here.

This transphobia has got to stop. How on earth does your mum know it was a trans person?

Take your accusations of transphobia and shove them where the sun don't shine you misogynist.

I think it would be problematic for a transwoman to use male changing room as their safety would be under threat.

Jewel1968, do you have any evidence for this statement? Any reports of TWs being assaulted in men’s changing rooms?

We’re always being told TWs are in danger if they use male facilities. Where is the evidence?

Researchers have found and published numerous reports of males committing sex offences against women and girls in women’s or unisex facilities. Some of these offenders are TW.

I'm going to ignore your utterly ignorant and racist last line as it is an irrelevant comparison since we are talking about sex and not race here.

With regards to your question. I think the penis belongs with other penises and the other penises should be made to understand they shouldn't sexually assault the penis who feels different to them. The non-penises shouldn't have to share with a penis because the penis feels vulnerable with other penises.

TLDR: The penises need to sort themselves out and not make it the non-penises problem.

the TRA its dangerous argument fails when a female is told it is safe to self id into a mens changing room.

Its very hard to pass as the opposite sex when 'near' nudity is involved so the you can tell /you can debate fails away.

If an average female can inclusively use a communal mens changing room it becomes clear that its not about safety but validation.
If the female can't its about male violence against a female and that is a no debate topic because males remain males.

^^ this.

What has that got to do with sex segregation?

Nothing. But it's straight from the Twitter misogynist's playbook.

With regards to your question. I think the penis belongs with other penises and the other penises should be made to understand they shouldn't sexually assault the penis who feels different to them.

While we are at it can we also make the penises understand they should not assault, rape and murder vagina people?

@maddy68

this in addition the children would not be in the changing rooms at the same time as an adult session was booked at the school.

The aqua aerobics is adults only. Immediately after is general swim at which all members - adults and children - can swim. So there is every possibility the person will still be in the changing room when mothers come in with their kids.

This transphobia has got to stop. How on earth does your mum know it was a trans person?

She doesn't know. She knows it's a male bodied person in a women's swimming costume with fake breasts. Maybe it's just a man who likes wearing those clothes? But given Stonewall say thar cross dressers are now under the trans umbrella, I think the person would probably consider themselves to be trans.

There's a man in the female changing room, why not just report it at the time? If my husband stuck a swimming costume on and sha

Posted too soon, and shaved his legs he'd still be a man. This is no different. Report him every time he is seen in the wrong changing room.

I did feel uncomfortable when I saw a male person in a female changing room, and in the Ladies, but I didn’t say anything. Then I had a frail elderly mother to think of, and daughters.

My daughters want single sex spaces, they don’t want to use a public loo or changing room where there might be males. We had an unnerving experience in Wagamama, I almost didn’t go to the Ladies with eldest dd, but luckily I did. We found a very thin room away from everything, with the loo cubicles on one side, there were designated male ones which we had to get past to get to the female three at the opposite end, any man could have easily pulled her into a cubicle. Nobody would have heard her shout. It was very quiet, we were the only ones there. As we were leaving a man was coming in. It gave both of us a fright and means she is nervous of using a loo in restaurants or shops.
Why should a teenage girl have to worry, and curtail her activities, because a business thinks it is progressive and “kind” to make their loos mixed sex ?
Why should women and girls be made to feel uncomfortable, or scared, or embarrassed, to appease the desire of a man to be in their space ? Why should they risk being filmed, or assaulted in that space ? Why should women have to limit their activities because they don’t want to share private spaces with males ? Why should an elderly lady feel that she can’t use her swimming pool, that is helping her physically and socially ?
And on the “female brain” nonsense….if these males really did have female brains they would know how we feel and keep out of our spaces.
I do not consent to sharing private space with men . My mother did not consent, my daughters do not consent. To the women on the thread happily giving up female spaces - you do not get to consent on behalf of other women and girls.

OP - I completely agree that mixed sex changing rooms are completely irrelevant. If you use mixed sex changing rooms you are made fully aware they are mixed sex. It is up to you if you use them or not. Similarly if you use single sex spaces then the assumption is that the space will only be used by that sex. Your mum and her friends were led to believe this was the case as they were informed that the TW would be accommodated elsewhere.

This!! 👆👆👆

FYI Anti-British Racists

The Irish have always been able to differentiate between females and males.
From when women were Queens to when they were locked into Mother and Baby homes the Irish knew and still know. When men wore black skirts and covered their heads in church too they knew. When they faced racism in other countries they knew. Even today when the Irish politicians are voting to remove the word woman from the pregnacny legislation they know.

As for the "Blacks" which "Blacks"?
Who is claiming that the "Blacks"; the slaves, the colonised, the free, the uneducated, the educated, etc, did not know the difference between female and male?

The thing is that it's not about transwomen's safety is it? Otherwise they would be happy with third spaces. As we have seen in this case, the NHS case and the Hampstead ponds they are not satisfied with using gender neutral safe options. They want in the women's.

I have my theories as to why that is but I would get deleted for posting them.

Nope, the 'person' is a 'trans woman' not a 'woman'. Please don't confuse, deliberately or otherwise, sex with gender. It's disingenuous.

It's really not that simple. As you can see from this thread - and from the NHS employment tribunal a few weeks' ago, many people believe that male bodied people are entitled to use women only spaces.

That's why my mum has asked my advice.

Thanks for posting a link, Maddy68. But it’s not that relevant to assault in a UK changing room. The US research shows a large number of TW victims are prostitutes attacked by their male clients.That is sadly common for female prostitutes too. Prostitutes are attacked more often than other women, probably because men find it easier to get away with. Also, the USA is very much more violent than here. I’ve yet to read of a TW being attacked in a UK changing room.

If she still has male genitalia then yes she should be in an individual area. If post op, no one should be making assumptions about whether someone is trans or not anyway according to the EHRC.

third spaces
Third spaces are not necessarily safer. They could still have men in them. So any third spaces would need to be stand alone single occupancy.

If she still has male genitalia then yes she should be in an individual area. If post op, no one should be making assumptions about whether someone is trans or not anyway according to the EHRC.

Do you have any evidence that a male without a penis is less of a risk than a male with a penis?

Third spaces are not necessarily safer. They could still have men in them. So any third spaces would need to be stand alone single occupancy.

I don't think you will get much disagreement with that suggestion at all. As long as all males who feel they cannot use the male provision use those spaces.

It is of no interest to me if this person has a penis or not. Nor what changing room they use. As long as it's not the same one my mum and other women are using.