Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

@Dreamwhisper if you don't want to talk about women being locked up with and assaulted by sexual predators (and I'll grant you, that is very upsetting), we could talk about Roviel Detenamo

She’s from Nauru, a small island in the Pacific Ocean. Weightlifting is a big deal in Nauru

She would have gone to the Tokyo Olympics in 2020, representing Nauru for weightlifting

she lost her place because Laurel Hubbard, a man, took a place in her Olympic weight category

Is her lost opportunity acceptable collateral damage for Laurel Hubbards dignity in being able to compete as a woman?

This makes a lot of sense, thank you for the measured and non judgemental response.

It makes such a difference when information is given without a cloud of offensiveness.

It sounds like single sex spaces and individual spaces are the best option. I do still have questions and I'll look in different places for answers and studies and discussion of those studies. But this is a useful if not disappointing post. It's sad to hear as obviously there's still lots of very vulnerable trans women who will be victimised based on these statistics.

But it does sound like it doesn't work so well.

This thread is so depressing. This person put their hat in a locker and then went off to swim.

Your mother feels this is a threat?
This poor person just wants to feel normal and go for a swim.

The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men is very very very unlikely to want to attack your mother for wanting a swim. This is what people used to say about lesbians - as most attacks on women are those who are attracted to women. Utter crap.

You’re not going to win this.

does this mean that women who don't want transwomen to use women's toilets and changing rooms may not be transphobic?

kudos on this reply - it's not often I see someone here rethinking a little

It's like what I saw on a another thread -

Trans - Can I sit down?
Women - Yeah sure, plenty of room at the table
Trans - No I want your seat.

100%.

Trans women, being male, offend at the same rate as other males.

You are wrong about their rights. Single-sex facilities are perfectly permissible, so an organisation does have the right to stop males using the female facilities, and women should not be made to feel bad for insisting on this being the norm.

And I do still think this is what I can't get over. What about transwomen who have spent large proportions of their lives on hormones, or have had gender reassignment surgery?

There are so many trans people that I look up to and respect, and some that I just see are vulnerable people themselves. I absolutely refuse to "not give a shiny shit" about them and I refuse to hold the belief that there's "no such thing" as being transgender.

That is the harmful and disgusting rhetoric that does make this place a bit of a laughing stock.

Her mother was semi-naked and no, doesn't want strange males to see her in that situation.

Why on earth is that wrong?

He can use the male facilities. There is no reason for him not to do so.

Why, by the way, are you referring to a male as “she”? Why do you think that that’s how he wants to be referred to?

No, you're right, I have been judgemental. I don't think in some cases it has been unwarranted.

But yes, I do understand. I do understand how knowing those statistics as well would make one feel not comforted by someone identifying as female.

It's a difficult, difficult situation.

The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men is very very very unlikely to want to attack your mother for wanting a swim. This is what people used to say about lesbians - as most attacks on women are those who are attracted to women. Utter crap.

Ugh this is what my brain is CONSTANTLY swinging back and forth between.

My heart is pulled both ways. Surely the only safe way forward is single spaces for any vulnerable activity - dressing, toileting, all of that.

What. A. Fucking. Load. Of. Cockcustard!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for the record, we ARE going to win this.

Get back to your fucking biscuits!

"The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men"

If you're talking about the pink/blue brain theory, that was debunked YEARS ago.

Although it does tick off another bingo card box.

They do not have "lady brains" FFS.

I think that poster would be most upset at your questioning Laurel's right to compete as a woman, as that is 'transphobic'.

Laurel has been oppressed and victimized all her life and deserves the right to compete as herself, don't you know?

I think I love you @SweetSenorita

I would vote with my feet and just leave. I suggest your mother does the same.

Male, female, mixed-sex, disabled.

This has been suggested by feminists from the outset, but 'third spaces' are rejected as 'othering'.

The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men is very very very unlikely to want to attack your mother for wanting a swim.

What is a brain similar to women? 98% of violent and sexual crime is committed by men. That doesn't change once they put a dress or lipstick on, or walk into a changing room. Unfortunately men who want to harm women don't come with a flashing sign.

Whether he flashed his male dick in her face or walked in and walked back out again, an elderly women in a state of undress has the right not to be seen by a male in a changing room for women. He could be the nicest male on the planet or Levi Bellfield, it doesn't matter. He shouldn't be there.

It really isn't fucking difficult to understand.

Get back to your fucking biscuits

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I know that some people are. Those gleefully insulting women who want single-sex changing facilities would be a good example.

That’s not a good letter, it makes an assumption that he was a trans woman. Better to stick to the facts and describe him as a man, or as male.

My heart is pulled both ways. Surely the only safe way forward is single spaces for any vulnerable activity - dressing, toileting, all of that.

I would be fine with having single spaces where practical, but I do think we need to acknowledge biological sex and the differences between male and female. It doesn't affect males as much, so they have less to lose than women.

Being trans doesn't make the person a threat in the women's changing room. Being a man does.

I won't use that letter, don't worry. It's not about the male bodied person putting a hat in a locker.

There should be no penises in women's changing rooms

The statement was that they identify as female. Female is not defined by someone’s feelings, it’s a physical fact.