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Transwoman in the changing room at school pool
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PoolFloat · 05/08/2022 14:57

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

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PoolFloat · 05/08/2022 14:58

The fact that it is in a school obviously means there is greater potential for children to be in the changing room I think. And also I would expect them to be very hot on safeguarding, particularly as many of students board and their parents are overseas.

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Noonecaresifyounamechange · 05/08/2022 15:19

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

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picklemewalnuts · 05/08/2022 15:21

Bollox @Noonecaresifyounamechange . A lesbian wouldn't be part of the group with the highest rate of sexual offending- men.

Op, someone wise and knowledgeable will be along with information soon.

It's clearly not me or the PP!

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AlisonDonut · 05/08/2022 15:22

Noonecaresifyounamechange · 05/08/2022 15:19

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

Well yes males are a threat to women and.girls, being that they commit what is it 97% of all sexual assaults?

It's the reason we have single sex spaces, I thought everyone knew that.

OP, try Sex Matters to get the legal angle here on single sex spaces and for some words to draft up that letter.

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DrDetriment · 05/08/2022 15:22

Noonecaresifyounamechange · 05/08/2022 15:19

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

I think the OP is expressing concerns that a biological male is changing with her elderly mother. Or are you one of those people who thinks a penis is a female sex organ?

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 05/08/2022 15:23

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

do me favour

no men are women

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CatsOperatingInGangs · 05/08/2022 15:24

Humans, like all mammals, instinctively sex people they come across. It happens without us thinking about it.

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picklemewalnuts · 05/08/2022 15:24

Re children, I'd anticipate the school is careful about students and public not swimming at the same time. That shouldn't be a problem.

However the women deserve privacy and dignity and same sex spaces to change in.
Women of particular faiths and ethnicities will be particularly disadvantaged by this, as will women with a trauma history.

Realistically though, the vast majority of women have been sexually assaulted or harassed in some way, and deserve spaces where they can feel safe.

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 05/08/2022 15:24

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women?

let's rephrase that

Does him being a man make him more of a threat than women?

and the answer of course, is yes. Even before you get to the questions of privacy and dignity

why does a person who will be perfectly well aware that he is a man want to be in the women's changing rooms?

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Aurora231 · 05/08/2022 15:29

I’m sorry but this is very mean spirited. She (he) put her swim hat in a locker in the changing room then left again?
look I am not a fan of trans activism or any of that stuff - but this person is still a human being who probably has all sorts of crap thrown at her from morning to night. She likes to go swimming, and used a locker briefly. I feel a bit sorry for her.

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hotdiggetydog · 05/08/2022 15:29

Sorry, what's the risk?

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ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 05/08/2022 15:30

Noonecaresifyounamechange · 05/08/2022 15:19

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

What nonsense. As I'm sure you well know, Noonecaresifyounamechange, almost all sexual assaults are committed by male people. The statistics also show that transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as other male people. Please tell us if you've ever heard reports of sexual assault or threatening behaviour by a lesbian towards other women or children in a changing room or toilet.

But assault isn't the main reason men have traditionally been kept out of women's changing rooms and toilets. Other offences such as exhibitionism are more common. Men have been caught illicitly filming women. For many women, simply having a man in the room while they are vulnerable eg when undressing is deeply stressful, for good reason.

So please don't pretend there is anything odd about the concern shown by PoolFloat and her mother.

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picklemewalnuts · 05/08/2022 15:31

Women have all sorts of crap thrown at them from morning to night, and go to women's swimming groups to escape it.

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PoolFloat · 05/08/2022 15:31

Yes I am concerned that someone who is clearly male is in a space where my elderly mother (along with many other elderly women) is getting changed.

She deserves privacy, dignity and safety when she's in a vulnerable position and a strapping clearly male person in their 40s being in there is making her very anxious.

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Staynow · 05/08/2022 15:33

Noonecaresifyounamechange · 05/08/2022 15:19

I think the reasons you’re finding it hard to word is because you’re wrong. The “person” is a women, who has ever right to be there.

Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

If she has/had a penis she is not a woman, and yes being born male makes her much more of a threat than a woman. When was the last time you heard of a lesbian raping a woman? A Swedish study found trans women were as likely to commit crime as men.

The researchers state:
‘male-to-females . . . retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was
true regarding violent crime.’
MtF transitioners were over 6 times more likely to be convicted of an offence than female
comparators and 18 times more likely to be convicted of a violent offence. The group had
no statistically significant differences from other natal males, for convictions in general or
for violent offending. The group examined were those who committed to surgery, and so
were more tightly defined than a population based solely on self-declaration.

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picklemewalnuts · 05/08/2022 15:34

It's obvious to me that the kind of 40yr old transwoman that puts themself in this situation, is the kind I don't want to share a space with.

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ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 05/08/2022 15:34

Aurora231 · 05/08/2022 15:29

I’m sorry but this is very mean spirited. She (he) put her swim hat in a locker in the changing room then left again?
look I am not a fan of trans activism or any of that stuff - but this person is still a human being who probably has all sorts of crap thrown at her from morning to night. She likes to go swimming, and used a locker briefly. I feel a bit sorry for her.

Women have all kinds of crap thrown at us, and that doesn't make us demand the right to trample on anyone else's legitimate rights.

Dogs urinate on lampposts to mark what they claim as their territory. A man could make a similar point by simply walking into a women-only space and leaving, say, a hat there.

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LilacSky95 · 05/08/2022 15:36

I would go mad tbh. I'd probably be asking to speak to the pool manager. Worlds gone mad in my opinion. Women and children need safe spaces from men. Women are still being assaulted by 'transwomen'. This is 100% an issue.

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Lollypip · 05/08/2022 15:39

This is very presumptive. So, even if she is biologically male (have they seen the naked parts?) who says she is interested in women? Or assaulting elderly ladies? I know women who share beds etc with gay male friends. Should they be terrified incase those friends decide because they have a penis they should assault someone? Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim. I'm sure life has been cruel enough to them. Fair enough if she was making advances or being threatening but... Using a locker?!

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Bodice · 05/08/2022 15:41

What about the fact they weee actively staring at the little girls. Do we just have to ignore creepy behavior now because it’s their right?

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hearmywomanlyroar · 05/08/2022 15:41

For the faux confused. Here are the reasons to exclude trans women from women's changing rooms:

  1. Women are entitled to single sex spaces.

    The end.
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picklemewalnuts · 05/08/2022 15:42

Lollypip · 05/08/2022 15:39

This is very presumptive. So, even if she is biologically male (have they seen the naked parts?) who says she is interested in women? Or assaulting elderly ladies? I know women who share beds etc with gay male friends. Should they be terrified incase those friends decide because they have a penis they should assault someone? Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim. I'm sure life has been cruel enough to them. Fair enough if she was making advances or being threatening but... Using a locker?!

Your friends who share a bed with gay male friends are making a choice. These elderly ladies would like to choose to share their locker room with women.

Why should they need to quiz a man on his genitals, history of assault, or sexual orientation cause you'd love it if they did, not before deciding if they want to share space with him? They already know they don't.

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LilacSky95 · 05/08/2022 15:42

You can never be too careful. Statistics show it's men (even ones who say they are women) doing the vast majority of the assaulting, raping, and violence 🤷‍♀️ like it or not, it's the truth

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Aurora231 · 05/08/2022 15:45

As far as I can tell she (I don’t believe you can change biological sex but I am happy to use somebody’s preferred pronouns) hasn’t actually done anything at all other than use a locker?! She didn’t get changed with your elderly mother, she didn’t get naked in front of the other biological women, she just quickly put a swim cap in a locker? Maybe there weren’t any other lockers available where she did get changed?
you’re all assuming she’s about to assault somebody, which is unfair.

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SavingsThreads · 05/08/2022 15:45

Lollypip · 05/08/2022 15:39

This is very presumptive. So, even if she is biologically male (have they seen the naked parts?) who says she is interested in women? Or assaulting elderly ladies? I know women who share beds etc with gay male friends. Should they be terrified incase those friends decide because they have a penis they should assault someone? Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim. I'm sure life has been cruel enough to them. Fair enough if she was making advances or being threatening but... Using a locker?!

So by that logic you'd be happy sharing changing rooms with all men until they do something bad?

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